Far NW UK newbie questions

[jenkinsbrynmair]

seem to remember that there is one member of the forum who keeps bees in Orkney

And there's another one who used to be on here in Stromness (again, Orkney)

 

[Mabee]

I’ve added modified roofs (bent sheet aluminium) to my poly nucs in an exposed (windy site in winter), strapping them down then doesn’t even touch the poly and keeps a bit of weather off! Have sheets for the full size too.

 

[Hairy]

So would anyone care to suggest which Poly to start with, which is easy and simple to use, expandable, widely compatible, doesn't leak and will last a lifetime in your unbiased and informed opinion? And which to avoid as a beginner and why?
Cheers

 

[pargyle]

It's only fragile when you stand a lighted smoker on the roof!

We' ve all done that once ! A piece of plywood attached to the bottom of the smoker sorts the problem - although the ring of shame on top of the hive remains to remind you for eternity !!

 

[pargyle]

I’ve added modified roofs (bent sheet aluminium) to my poly nucs in an exposed (windy site in winter), strapping them down then doesn’t even touch the poly and keeps a bit of weather off! Have sheets for the full size too.

Who can tell you what you prefer ...the designs all have their own idiosyncrasies ... none of them are particularly compatible with each other and only a few are compatible with timber. I like Paynes Poly hives ... they do everything I want them to do, reasonably robust. reasonably priced if you pick them up when there are sales ... the bees do well in them and there's a nice broad landing board which means I can watch my girls coming and going - not that the bees care much anyway !

The only good advice is that you do your research ... decide what you like in the hives on offer and go with that one - and stick with it. there's nothing worse than misnmatched bee kit.

 

[Boston Bees]

Who can tell you what you prefer ...the designs all have their own idiosyncrasies ... none of them are particularly compatible with each other and only a few are compatible with timber. I like Paynes Poly hives ... they do everything I want them to do, reasonably robust. reasonably priced if you pick them up when there are sales ... the bees do well in them and there's a nice broad landing board which means I can watch my girls coming and going - not that the bees care much anyway !

The only good advice is that you do your research ... decide what you like in the hives on offer and go with that one - and stick with it. there's nothing worse than misnmatched bee kit.

Excellent advice.

Abelo, Paynes, Maisemore and others all do perfectly good poly hives (I would just avoid Swienty, from anecdotal reviews from long-time users).

Watch some reviews on them all on YouTube, for a start, and take it from there.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

So would anyone care to suggest which Poly to start with, which is easy and simple to use, expandable, widely compatible, doesn't leak and will last a lifetime in your unbiased and informed opinion? And which to avoid as a beginner and why?
Cheers

Abelo mk1 version National poly with the deep roof is what I use. Entirely compatible with wooden national boxes too. I did have a spare super broken by an inquisitive pony once (it was waiting cleaning in a barrow when the pony decided to investigate). I glued the sections together with two part epoxy and cramped it up to keep the joints closed and the box "square" while it set. Can't see the join now unless you know where to look.

 

[The Poot]

I was once sceptical about poly hives, but have pretty much changed from wood to Abelo Mk1 poly and don’t regret it.

 

[Newbeeneil]

I have cedar boxes and last year bought some Abelo mk1 boxes for a client. I was very impressed and if I was starting today I think I'd go for them myself. I would however go for the feeder rather than a standard crownboard as @ericbeaumont recommends.

 

[Murox]

Whichever brand/version of poly national hive you choose be aware that to either a greater or lesser extent you are buying into 'a system' of sorts. All have faults and plus points mostly according to personal preference/taste. Some of them have been redesigned on occasions so be aware that some brands have multiple offerings which differ in various ways. Do your homework and take time to read about them all carefully.

 

[ericbeaumont]

go for the feeder rather than a standard crownboard as @ericbeaumont recommends

I definitely do recommend it, but the idea came from Murray McGregor (ITLD here) who leaves poly feeders on all winter (or all year round).

Laurence at Black Mountain Honey also uses that combo and it seems the idea is catching on, as Abelo now sell it as a package with the better deep roof.

Murray goes further when feeding: he dispenses with the box feeder baffles and throws in straw instead. Bees zoom up, crawl over the straw and hoover up.

This accelerated feeding may avoid the dead bee collection in feeder wells behind the baffle, where bees loiter and die when the temp. drops.

I'm going to trial fit silicone strips in the slot at the base of the box, to prevent heat loss into the feeder when not in use with syrup.

The box feeder can be inverted to feed fondant or used as a split board, and of course is a full-time crownboard.

Four uses is worth the £42 for an Ashforth box, and saves spending £26 on a crownboard.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Whichever brand/version of poly national hive you choose be aware that to either a greater or lesser extent you are buying into 'a system' of sorts. All have faults and plus points mostly according to personal preference/taste. Some of them have been redesigned on occasions so be aware that some brands have multiple offerings which differ in various ways. Do your homework and take time to read about them all carefully.

Abelo have moved to mk2 versions with short "toes" on the bases to allow closer stacking on a trailer when moving the hives between sites (no use to me as my hives stay put), produced a modified poly crown board and shallower roof also now sell a 12 frame hive with a different footprint. I stick with the original (mark 1) for it's compatibility with standard wooden boxes, hence my comment previously as still have a number of wooden supers. The poly crown board has loose poly hole covers which I stick down with a couple of beads of silicon seal to stop them falling off during manipulation or I replace the poly crown board with a home made transparent one. They also sell a version with 14 x 12 poly brood box which is entirely compatible with both the mk1 or wooden hives. I've handled other brands but still prefer the Abelo.
Deep mk1 roofs are useful to put on standard wooden hives too, being light and easy to handle plus they are deep enough to place over a rapid feeder when autumn comes around.

 

[ericbeaumont]

you are buying into 'a system' of sorts. All have faults and plus points

True of Paynes, BHS, BS, Paradise and Maisemore, but not of Abelo, which is entirely compatible with bottom bee space wood National equipment and has no faults worth mentioning.

stick with the original (mark 1) for it's compatibility with standard wooden boxes, hence my comment previously as still have a number of wooden supers

John is referring to the original Abelo National hive and not the Abelo National 12-frame, which has a different footprint that will lock you into the sort of system that Murox described.

If you're starting beekeeping, have no kit and don't mind locking yourself into a supplier's unique format, go ahead, but if you prefer flexibiity - suppose that in a couple of years Auntie Grace surprises you with a set of wood supers for your birthday - then the Abelo dimensions will match exactly your poly and her wood.

 

[pargyle]

True of Paynes, BHS, BS, Paradise and Maisemore, but not of Abelo, which is entirely compatible with bottom bee space wood National equipment and has no faults worth mentioning.

John is referring to the original Abelo National hive and not the Abelo National 12-frame, which has a different footprint that will lock you into the sort of system that Murox described.

If you're starting beekeeping, have no kit and don't mind locking yourself into a supplier's unique format, go ahead, but if you prefer flexibiity - suppose that in a couple of years Auntie Grace surprises you with a set of wood supers for your birthday - then the Abelo dimensions will match exactly your poly and her wood.

However .... if you decide you like top bee space .....and you get cash rather than timber supers from great aunt Maude.... or actually like Langstroth format hives over standard national boxes which are often too small and you are faced with double brood or God forbid brood and a half .... so many options it may take a year just to decide on a hive format !

 

[madasafish]

So would anyone care to suggest which Poly to start with, which is easy and simple to use, expandable, widely compatible, doesn't leak and will last a lifetime in your unbiased and informed opinion? And which to avoid as a beginner and why?
Cheers

I have both Swienty (yYnn Jones) and Paradise Honey (Modern Beekeeping)
Swienty has a bigger footprint than wooden but is compatible with wooden: Compatible with wood .comes assembled. very strong.No leaks
Paradise is not compatible with wood without some fiddling . Very strong, no leaks. Assembly job - simple.No leaks.

There are various poly hives/nucs with design flaws - condensation/leaks AVOID, Google will assist

If I was to start again, Swienty all the way.

 

[Murox]

I have both Swienty (yYnn Jones) and Paradise Honey (Modern Beekeeping)
Swienty has a bigger footprint than wooden but is compatible with wooden: Compatible with wood .comes assembled. very strong.No leaks
Paradise is not compatible with wood without some fiddling . Very strong, no leaks. Assembly job - simple.No leaks.

There are various poly hives/nucs with design flaws - condensation/leaks AVOID, Google will assist
If I was to start again, Swienty all the way.

Interesting. I also choose Swienty as I discovered that any issues were easily surmounted (google can be a friend), they were cheaper than many and pretty much compatible with most. I have not found compatibility to be a significant problem at all, there are ways around most things anyhow. I do like their floor design which gives a simple 8/9mm entrance across the width of the box and incorporates a sloping though not protruding landing area (no need for mouse guards come winter); and their roof is designed to double up as temporary solid floor if needs be. Black Mountain Honey has a thorough pros and cons video on the U-tube.

 

[madasafish]

Interesting. I also choose Swienty as I discovered that any issues were easily surmounted (google can be a friend), they were cheaper than many and pretty much compatible with most. I have not found compatibility to be a significant problem at all, there are ways around most things anyhow. I do like their floor design which gives a simple 8/9mm entrance across the width of the box and incorporates a sloping though not protruding landing area (no need for mouse guards come winter); and their roof is designed to double up as temporary solid floor if needs be. Black Mountain Honey has a thorough pros and cons video on the U-tube.

I use my own UFE floor..

 

[Hairy]

Thank you all for the inputs.
I read about a man whose name I should have remembered who worked with bees at the college in Stornoway and then Aberdeen around 1900 IIRC who designed a hive to be left on the moor year round, and was so heavy you couldn't easily move it if you wanted too! So perhaps DIY with scaffold boards and paving slabs is an option too. Or a poly hive inside a weighed down wheelie bin with a hole cut in the front. Or the first in-situ concrete hive?

 

[Boston Bees]

Thank you all for the inputs.
I read about a man whose name I should have remembered who worked with bees at the college in Stornoway and then Aberdeen around 1900 IIRC who designed a hive to be left on the moor year round, and was so heavy you couldn't easily move it if you wanted too! So perhaps DIY with scaffold boards and paving slabs is an option too. Or a poly hive inside a weighed down wheelie bin with a hole cut in the front. Or the first in-situ concrete hive?

You are far too worried about wind.

The key to not getting your hive blown over is not the hive. You can find lots of photos of very heavy wooden hives, blown on their sides, on this forum and elsewhere.

The key is

a) the stand, and
b) the straps

I use a stand made of two (or four, if you want it higher) hollow concrete blocks (like these Hollow Concrete Block 7N 215mm – JMD Building & DIY Supplies (jmdbuildingsupplies.co.uk ) with a thin concrete paving slab on top. The paving slab is optional really, but I like it.

Strap a hive of any material to that and, trust me, it isn't getting blown anywhere, however windy it is up there.

PS: You must strap the hive to the stand, not just to itself.

 

[Hairy]

You are far too worried about wind.

The key to not getting your hive blown over is not the hive. You can find lots of photos of very heavy wooden hives, blown on their sides, on this forum and elsewhere.

The key is

a) the stand, and
b) the straps

I use a stand made of two (or four, if you want it higher) hollow concrete blocks (like these Hollow Concrete Block 7N 215mm – JMD Building & DIY Supplies (jmdbuildingsupplies.co.uk ) with a thin concrete paving slab on top. The paving slab is optional really, but I like it.

Strap a hive of any material to that and, trust me, it isn't getting blown anywhere, however windy it is up there.

PS: You must strap the hive to the stand, not just to itself, as some have learnt to their cost in recent weeks.

View attachment 31232

It is possible I am thinking of what the wind can do too much, but it would be silly to have a hive broken because of it when I could have done something to minimise the effects. Most wind is winter and overnight, so hopefully it won't be a non-starter for the bees, who will have a fair degree of shelter.( Edited because it will be fine.) (Apparently.)