Feeding

[Quis Custodiet]

............. Of course stimulative feeding is a lot different from feeding for crop,
However.......

Back when Ambrosia in particular was first being promoted here one of the main sales tactics involved the statement 'undetectable in honey'................


Thanks for the elaboration. I recall the Ambrosia advert, but here by-products of the Belgian chocolate industry are apparently found quite efficacious. Eight hundred euros for a pallet tank of syrup shows quite a decent profit. No danger of any tests for adulteration being initiated by any bee keeping association/federation/society.

 

[Into the lions den]

Thanks for the elaboration. I recall the Ambrosia advert, but here by-products of the Belgian chocolate industry are apparently found quite efficacious. Eight hundred euros for a pallet tank of syrup shows quite a decent profit. No danger of any tests for adulteration being initiated by any bee keeping association/federation/society.

No need to worry on that count. These tests ARE being fairly routinely done nowadays. Analysis today is as tight as it has ever been. Anyone feeding sugar or invert syrup for crop today runs a very high risk of being caught and penalised severely.

Feeding for crop is nothing new. It was a widespread malpractice in the past, way back beyond the present generation.

I well remember a whole truckload of UK honey being rejected in the 1980's at its export destination, said on analysis to be approx. 64% derived from syrup feeding.

Further back than that in an era my father used to relate to me, of being offered green honey, I heard of it from others too, and the beekeepers being mightily offended when their wonderful local honey was rejected. It was the era of denatured sugar.

The Belgosuc product is no by product btw....its a designer bee feed specially manufactured for purpose. There are two, Apisuc and Invertbee. Both good.

But not for crop extension.

 

[Poly Hive]

Well all I have just checked the temps here and it is a shivering 8C with a cold breeze making it feel more like 5C

Fondant please.

PH

 

[BeeJayBee]

General consensus then is 1:1 syrup in a frame feeder on outer frame position against hive wall.

If you're concerned about a colony losing heat you need to be able to fill a frame feeder without completely taking off the crown board - slide it to one side, rather than lift it off completely.

Using top feeders can mean less disturbance, and fewer drowned bees.

No need to worry on that count. These tests ARE being fairly routinely done nowadays. Analysis today is as tight as it has ever been. Anyone feeding sugar or invert syrup for crop today runs a very high risk of being caught and penalised severely.

I presume the same tests are carried out on imports?

 

[foghornleghorn]

No need to worry on that count. These tests ARE being fairly routinely done nowadays. Analysis today is as tight as it has ever been. Anyone feeding sugar or invert syrup for crop today runs a very high risk of being caught and penalised severely.

Feeding for crop is nothing new. It was a widespread malpractice in the past, way back beyond the present generation.

I well remember a whole truckload of UK honey being rejected in the 1980's at its export destination, said on analysis to be approx. 64% derived from syrup feeding.

Further back than that in an era my father used to relate to me, of being offered green honey, I heard of it from others too, and the beekeepers being mightily offended when their wonderful local honey was rejected. It was the era of denatured sugar.

The Belgosuc product is no by product btw....its a designer bee feed specially manufactured for purpose. There are two, Apisuc and Invertbee. Both good.

But not for crop extension.

What sort of tolerance level is there for syrup in honey, presumably there is a risk of a few percent ending up from winter feed..

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

Fondant please.

I just put a little in a plastic bag in the side feeder of a Paynes nuc that was hefting very light. I hear everyone on the desirability of liquid feed, but for various reasons, including the feeder not being clean, I did not want to do that. They're straight on it and can forage water so should be OK I hope. Thanks for the reminder why I strongly try to avoid feeding production colonies.

 

[Into the lions den]

I presume the same tests are carried out on imports?

The tests on imports are very severe. EVERY batch has to be done. Tests are done at source, by the importer, and again at the packing plant. It costs an immense amount of money. My friend and colleague who does a lot of imports has a bill in excess of 100K per year now for analyses, and he is just ONE link in the chain.

However, does it catch all adulteration? No, as some provenances (being political) specialise in making a product that passes all the tests.

UK honey is, a bit like UK bees, probably among the least tested, but its becoming more so, and the list of tests is long and involved and would not be understood here, except by a handful in the trade.

If it goes to a major packer...ie Rowse...it will be tested for hmf, pollens, organoleptic properties, sugars, pesticides, varroicides, antibiotics, PAs and may have a test done based on radioactive isotope presence profile to determine reasonably precise geographical origin.

 

[Into the lions den]

What sort of tolerance level is there for syrup in honey, presumably there is a risk of a few percent ending up from winter feed..

Every honey type has its own profile so to give a hard and fast level is misleading. Borage for example has a natural sucrose content that would normally cause OSR to be rejected.

They just look at normal parameters for honey of the type. Stray much outside it and you can have problems. To be honest a pound or two of well founded syrup moved upstairs by the bees and mixed in with the crop is pretty much safe and not likely to show up. It will be neither detectable nor significantly quality harming. Start to feed for crop however and you quickly move outside the normal parameters.

Example might be ling heather. Normal sucrose amount would be about 4%, but can go up or down by at least a couple of percent. Go above say 8% and interest might start to be shown. It goes beyond that now with the actual carbon isotope rations being different for nectar derived and non nectar derived sugars..........I cannot explain where the boundaries lie at which a prosecution might be considered, and no doubt its kept that way, or some clever clogs will devise a way to go JUST up to the limit and get away with it.

Probably as clear as mud...

 

[BeeJayBee]

Probably as clear as mud...

Yes, no! You'd be surprised!

Usefully informative, as usual ITLD and thanks.

Is there any point at which a 'local honey', sold by somebody with significantly fewer than 39 colonies, would be subjected to the same sort of testing?

 

[REDWOOD]

It's just a tad to early here for a stimulating feed, although a few bees flying and sunny, in the shade it is quite chilly with a easterly wind, not much in flower so not much brood food at the moment, ill probably wait until the blackthorn has started flowering before giving them a boost of 1/1 feed. No shortage of water close to apiarys living in Wales

 

[bpmurray]

Just had a peek and one hive is down to the last inch of the fondant. Will that last a 4-seam hive last until Saturday or should I feed them a new block now?

I also have some Candipolline, but I don't know if it's too early to over-excite them and send them into brood mode with all the extra pollen.

 

[Into the lions den]

Is there any point at which a 'local honey', sold by somebody with significantly fewer than 39 colonies, would be subjected to the same sort of testing?

I understand from various sources that sampling is essentially random. Thus the 40 hive guy is four times as likely to be tested than the 10 hive guy, on the assumption their yields per colony are equal and all honey is jarred and sold retail.

The really small guy, with no suspicious indicators, might have his honey tested once a generation, whereas mines is tested at several levels and several times every year. Per tonne produced it will amount to a similar level of surveillance.

Not including the private testing that goes on in this. All my honey goes in barrels in bulk, and the stockholder has to provide the packers with analyses before they will buy, and then the packer does their own tests to confirm, or perhaps look for some extra things. Then the amount of local authority random sampling that takes place of the product from retail shelves is seemingly enormous, yet will be in proportion to what you experience.

 

[Tom Bick]

Thanks for taking the trouble to post this is all very interesting.

 

[BrianO]

Thanks for taking the trouble to post this is all very interesting.

Ditto. Fascinating stuff !

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Just had a peek and one hive is down to the last inch of the fondant. Will that last a 4-seam hive last until Saturday or should I feed them a new block now?

I also have some Candipolline, but I don't know if it's too early to over-excite them and send them into brood mode with all the extra pollen.

depends entirely on the rate they're taking it - from my experience, you should be OK

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

SUGAR TAX!!! Will sort some of this out! Hah!

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

There'll have to be an exemtion for bees - so like in my grandfather's day, leave more of the honey on the hives and sell the bees' ration on the black market

 

[linoleum bonypart]

Better get down to Lidl lol

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Better get down to Lidl lol

I went to Farm Foods weeks ago

 

[madasafish]

The sugar tax only applies to sugar in alcohol free drinks.. eg coke, not cider..