Feeding

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oliver90owner

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I see, from the beginners section, that people are still telling newbies that fondant is the stuff to feed, even though it is time for colony expansion.

Fondant is OK for starvation prevention, but.....

11% water is NBG for feeding larvae - think here of what water content larvae might be?

Think of what the bees will be out and collecting if the weather is warm enough? That is right - water and pollen!

Think how long these winter bees are going to have to survive, if brooding has started and ceases, before they are replaced by sufficient new bees to avoid colony dwindling.

Think how long the colony will take to expand to a force strong enough to collect surplus nectar. Yes, that is right, at least a couple of brood cycles - yes, over six weeks.

Try an entrance feeder with 1:1 syrup and just see which they will take - liquid or solid. Then try that entrance feeder with very weak sugar solution, once they start, and you will see that they need water, water and more water.

I cannot guarantee what the weather holds for us, but it is most likely to warm up after this week. Yes, half way through March. Four years ago the OSR was in strong (but not quite full) bloom by the end of March. That does not look likely this season, but if one wants an OSR crop, then they need to start expanding.

Think, once the brood nest temperature rises to brooding conditions, your well insulated coverboards will be warm enough for liquid feed - if one thinks carefully how best to do it. Frame feeders will be near the brood nest. Anyting will be as warm or handier, for the bees than having to go foraging for water (unless the water supply is in a sunny position and preferably dark in colour.

No, I don't think fondant is best, at this time, for anything much more than starvation prevention. And damp granulated sugar would do for that, in an emergency.
 
In essence I agree with you RAB, and indeed would, and do, choose syrup myself from now on.

However, fondant is not so bad, when *correctly fed*. All the water they need rises out of the cluster and by a combination of condensation and hygroscopic action on the working face of the fondant the bees get pretty well all the water they need.

We often use it quite late if needed and our main concern with late fondant feeding is the bees going up inside the bags and drawing wild comb there, and even the queen can sometime stray into there increasing risks, and certainly giving some hassles, as spring advances. Can be a right mess.

In some places in Scandinavia they feed significant amounts of fondant mid summer, to provide the gentle long term stimulation that a syrup feed does not give.

ps....the 'correctly fed' part is aimed at other readers and in no way at you. You know very well what you are doing....some readers may not.
 
Water problem isn't issue at my place. It is too cold to bees go in feeder, so placing fondant/pattie with nylon on top bars seems fine. In fondant itself there is water also there is water of condensation on nylon, also these days if more and more bees are able to collect water from outside. I placed water feeder and watched, there weren't crowded with bees. With sugar syrup we start when bees are able to be in constant contact with feeder - syrup 1:1 as it is spring time ( to don't stay in feeder and freeze), and to same syrup don't stay in feeder for week or more.
 
Consideration also has to be given to the type of feeder used.

I abandoned top feeders pretty early on in my "career" and changed over to frame feeders.

My reasoning was by placing the feeder next to the hive wall for easy topping up I was also placing it closer to the bees and so saving them some work.

Further I was avoiding having a tank of cold syrup over their heads.

In my view it works better with far less risk of the feeder failing and the syrup cascading down on the bees.

PH
 
Consideration also has to be given to the type of feeder used.

I abandoned top feeders pretty early on in my "career" and changed over to frame feeders.

My reasoning was by placing the feeder next to the hive wall for easy topping up I was also placing it closer to the bees and so saving them some work.

Further I was avoiding having a tank of cold syrup over their heads.

In my view it works better with far less risk of the feeder failing and the syrup cascading down on the bees.

PH

I also like frame feeders but the poly ashforths have duel benefits of insulation and holding a mighty tank of food (not that they need that this time of year) that can be filled without losing nest warmth.
 
I have relative shallow miller feeders ( in smaller compartment I can place about 1 liter of syrup). I rarelly use lot higher syrup feeding than that ( in emergency feed as part of winter preparations). Also I don't have none of crown boards, miller feeders are in that function. I just turn it upside down when needed. It is common use here.
 
ah right IC

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Hi all,
I am feeding some fondant tomorrow. Overnight temps forecast between 0 and +2 for all of next week, so bees will be clustered and frame feeder will get stone cold overnight. On a positive note lots of very large pollen loads going in! Roll on spring.
 
I thought of liquid feed but -like Beeno above - we are forecast to see 1-2C overnight - so I'll wait a wee bit..
 
Stimulative feeding with 1-1 syrup if fine and helpful if you need to encourage brooding in the colony to capitalise on a early nectar crop. I don't bother myself as I don't have fields of early OSR that could be my main crop of the year. Also it could be a good tool for the more advanced beekeeper to get their hive up to full strength as soon as possible and have the experience to deal with a big strong colony over several weeks.

But in the beginners section, stimulative feeding could be a bit advanced for the beginner to understand the mechanics behind the system and could push the bees to early swarming. In my opinion beginners and less experienced beekeepers are best advised to let their bees expand at a more natural pace and keep feeding as simple as possible and ideally, difficult as new beekeepers generally over feed, to a minimum or not at all.
 
General consensus then is 1:1 syrup in a frame feeder on outer frame position against hive wall.

Asunming they consume this, over how long a period should this be given ?

The intended purpose is to stimulate brood development to achieve a strong colony, in an urban setting with good local forage, weather permitting, has sayone found this strategy can lead to a early build up and early honey crop ?

I have a couple boxes if "Apinvert " anyone know is this ( which I think it is ) a stronger 2:1 solution, and therefore not suitable for now, as not mimiking an early weak nectar flow ?

Can such an early feeding strategy increase the likelyhood of early swarming and production of queen cells ?
 
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To the wallet?

Not far off in some cases. Of course stimulative feeding is a lot different from feeding for crop, but SHOULD in the end mean stronger colonies for the calluna to follow after the gap period they have preceding it, which SHOULD feed through into higher crops and a less battered wallet. Its why they use fondant...keeps the queen laying through dearths, where a syrup feed in summer in such circumstance is gone in 24 hours and stored in the combs. Active stimulus gone again.

However.......

Back when Ambrosia in particular was first being promoted here one of the main sales tactics involved the statement 'undetectable in honey'.

This was not true of course, just depends what test were done and how.

Nonetheless, some beekeepers over there were feeding 60, 70, 80....and occasionally more.................then telling us how poor beekeepers we were over here, yet their crop uplift on us was less than the extra weight of syrup they fed.

One Scandinavian guy sat in my office and told me I had to learn the way to really make money, and using this product in abundance was the key move. I challenged him about the claim to which he answered 'Well? Its not illegal is it?' I told him that in the UK it probably was, and for sure the non nectar derived sugars are sometimes tested for here and I doubt your customer base, and for sure your credibility, would survive being caught doing this.

We only feed in summer to alleviate possible starvation events. Not got the time and cant6 afford it anyway, so its small amounts only in desperate situations.
 
............. anyone found this strategy can lead to a early build up and early honey crop ?

I have a couple boxes if "Apinvert " anyone know is this ( which I think it is ) a stronger 2:1 solution, and therefore not suitable for now, as not mimiking an early weak nectar flow ?

Can such an early feeding strategy increase the likelyhood of early swarming and production of queen cells ?


Yes, if nectar is available for the colony when it has built up.

Dilute it with water to achieve the required concentration.

Yes. A very popular technique in the Sunny South East for those who have overwintered swarms available from mid May onwards! ;)
 

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