Beekeeping in the park

[mike_bike_kite]

Quick intro:

I'm the chairman of the friends group for my local common in Streatham London and we are also set up as a charity. The common is roughly 70 acres and a mixture of parkland, flower beds, woodland and orchard. Being in London means it is also surrounded by homes and gardens. We are currently looking into the idea of keeping bees on the common, a couple of hives would be perfect. We believe we have one member who currently keeps bees and a number of people, including myself, who would like to learn.​

My questions:

• Can we keep bees on a common?
• Do we need to secure them away from the public? I have options to:
  • hide them completely
  • just place them behind screens
  • put them in a secure compound but this area is probably too busy
  • make them as public as possible but obviously this increases public risk
• How much do bee hives cost and what type of hives should we get?
• What equipment do we need?
• How much does training cost? (nearly all the money we raise goes straight into the common so unfortunately we don't have much money)
• are there grants available for parks/charities/public spaces
• What time of year is suitable for starting the hives? for training?
• Should I consider special planting on the common to help the bees?
• Do we need public insurance?
• Do hives in "public" spaces suffer much from vandalism?
  
• Anything I've missed?

Thanks for your time.

Mike

 

[madasafish]

Quick intro:

I'm the chairman of the friends group for my local common in Streatham London and we are also set up as a charity. The common is roughly 70 acres and a mixture of parkland, flower beds, woodland and orchard. Being in London means it is also surrounded by homes and gardens. We are currently looking into the idea of keeping bees on the common, a couple of hives would be perfect. We believe we have one member who currently keeps bees and a number of people, including myself, who would like to learn.​

My questions:

• Can we keep bees on a common?
• Do we need to secure them away from the public? I have options to:
  • hide them completely
  • just place them behind screens
  • put them in a secure compound but this area is probably too busy
  • make them as public as possible but obviously this increases public risk
• How much do bee hives cost and what type of hives should we get?
• What equipment do we need?
• How much does training cost? (nearly all the money we raise goes straight into the common so unfortunately we don't have much money)
• are there grants available for parks/charities/public spaces
• What time of year is suitable for starting the hives? for training?
• Should I consider special planting on the common to help the bees?
• Do we need public insurance?
• Do hives in "public" spaces suffer much from vandalism?
  
• Anything I've missed?

Thanks for your time.

Mike

Do you have a never ending supply of beekeepers who will be able to respond to any emergency during swarming period May to July? And be able to respond to complaints from people who have been stung..?

Beekeeping requires time and devotion by people who know what they are doing. On a Common, even more so. There ARE risks to the public.. You need to do a proper H&S Assessment...(Seriously).

(I have been involved helping - as a Technical adviser to something like you propose - but on an allotment. They don't have any competent dedicated beekeepers. It's going to fail because I refuse to/cannot be on call all the time and no-one else competent is available)

 

[mike_bike_kite]

I haven't made public the idea of the hives as yet but I've already had 5 people,including the head gardener, ask if they can look after the hives. I'd actually be quite happy looking after the hives by myself as my wife vetoed my suggestion of having bee hives in my own back garden. The aim is to form a small beekeeping group as this would allow us to have people on hand and also allow others to enjoy a hobby that many city dwellers quite envy. Our larger issue is probably more the cost of training/equipment rather than finding enough willing volunteers.

H&S will be done after I've gathered the information I need. If they suggest it's inappropriate then we won't go ahead. We already have a number of wild bee "hives" on the common and haven't had any issues as yet.

 

[domino]

I support a friends group who keep bees not for from Streatham they keep bees in a pubic park.

A few tips:

• you do need a secure place to keep them with a lock and from prying eyes
• reach out to your local beekeeping group for support they'll help you set it up
• you may be able to get funding from charity groups, I think the gruop I support got cash from Aviva
• count the number of people saying they are willing to help and divide it by three - that's how many actually will.
• Reach out to your local beekeeping groups - I know I said that before but it's worth repeating

 

[Vortex]

We already have a number of wild bee "hives" on the common and haven't had any issues as yet.

Can you explain what you mean by this .. I helped setup a Group at a local branch of a Top100 corp.
Whilst the hives were located within their "site", meaning it was secure from public access, we sited it so it was away from general access and fenced it off .. on 2 sides with 6ft fencing and with 3ft on the other 2 sides.

I would suggest you have 3 real issues ..
1) the danger from vandalism
2) the risk of the hives being stolen
3) ensuring that the public can't inadvertently get too close.

I'd also plan to have a number of hives .. potentially up to 6 because if it becomes "popular" then you will invariably want to increase the number of hives, and use any income from any honey to help finance the project.

On the training front your best angle of attack is to try and get someone from the local BBKA association to act as a mentor through your first couple of seasons, and as a backup at least one of your should do a basic bee-keeping course, again your local association is the best place to get advise on this.

As to hive costs, your best bet is to buy in one of the end-of-year or early season sales .. I do not recommend buying from a well know American Bee Supplier..

As a rough ballpark figure to acquire hives, suits, bees (assuming you buying nucs), tools, you're looking at somewhere between £1000 and £2000. There are ways of reducing costs, buy flat packs, self assemble, acquire swarms but all of these depend on getting the right people with the right experience involved.

 

[mike_bike_kite]

@ domino - all tips noted.

The wild bees "hives" - just mean's swarms of bees living in trees around the common. The common is quite noted for it's gardens and the flowers seem to attract the bees. The largest colony lives in a big tree at the top of the common and has lived there quite happily for years. Sorry for the bad terminology.

Vandalism - if we lock the bees in a secure environment than this aspect is removed but sadly this also removes the bees from the public eye as well.

Stolen? - I didn't realise bee hives got stolen! are they after the bees? the hone? or the hives? or is it just masochists.

Keeping the public at bay - we can easily have an area that's fenced away from the public but that won't provide much protection against the two points above.

Number of hives - we're initially looking at two hives but might leave space for 4. Another project that is beginning on our common is a small micro brewery and a proportion of the honey may well be used in their brewing, some may be sold in our cafe and the rest will be shared by those looking after the bees. The brewery are likely to contribute to our costs.

 

[alldigging]

Vandalism - if we lock the bees in a secure environment than this aspect is removed but sadly this also removes the bees from the public eye as well.

Stolen? - I didn't realise bee hives got stolen! are they after the bees? the hone? or the hives? or is it just masochists.

Keeping the public at bay - we can easily have an area that's fenced away from the public but that won't provide much protection against the two points above.

You can have big fences round them so people are a safe distance away. It won't stop determined &&%^^$& though.
People can see through meshweld eco profile fences quite easily.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Quick intro:

[*]Can we keep bees on a common?

as long as you have commoner's rights I don't see why not.

 

[Teebeeaitch]

Mike,
Not sure what you are trying to achieve on the common. You have stated that you already have feral colonies living wild anyway, so you already have plenty of bees. Why not leave it as it is. No insurance, public liability, H&S assessment, etc required. Best of all, no meddling Beekeepers. As things are at the moment, it seems it ain't broke!

 

[mike_bike_kite]

Not sure what you are trying to achieve on the common.

The aim is to connect people to nature, to learn about beekeeping and to get some honey. We're certainly not trying to better pollinate the flowers.

You have stated that you already have feral colonies living wild anyway, so you already have plenty of bees. Why not leave it as it is.
No insurance, public liability, H&S assessment, etc required. Best of all, no meddling Beekeepers. As things are at the moment, it seems it ain't broke!

I guess you could ask that same question to anyone on this forum. Or do you guys tend to live in places mostly devoid of insect life?

 

[MartinL]

Quick intro:

I'm the chairman of the friends group for my local common in Streatham London .​

My questions:

[*]Do we need to secure them away from the public? I have options to:

[*]hide them completely

Thanks for your time.

Mike

I'd say, given that you have announced to all in UK/Europe the location of the hives (Streatham Common).
Theft is going to be the greatest threat!
Then Vandalism!

 

[mike_bike_kite]

I appreciate that beehive thefts are big business up north but I suspect our local criminals, god bless them, aim a little higher. We had a drugs bust round the corner a month back plus a body found in the woods and we even had bullets sprayed into the park sign when I first moved in. It may be the wild west at times but bee rustling isn't a major concern, at least at the moment. Vandalism is more likely but we can site the bees in a locked area and away from prying eyes.

Does everyone think it's a bad idea to have bees then? I'll admit I was expecting slightly more upbeat feedback.

 

[domino]

Does everyone think it's a bad idea to have bees then? I'll admit I was expecting slightly more upbeat feedback.

The bees we keep in the park are doing well and over the past few years they have built up quite a solid group.

I do think you'll need to secure them, people may not try to steal them but I can guarantee some halfwit will try and kick them over in the winter.

Find your local beekeeping group and ask there advice.

Give it a whirl.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Put some empty hives in and see what happens to them?

 

[Robbo8916]

I appreciate that beehive thefts are big business up north but I suspect our local criminals, god bless them, aim a little higher. We had a drugs bust round the corner a month back plus a body found in the woods and we even had bullets sprayed into the park sign when I first moved in. It may be the wild west at times but bee rustling isn't a major concern, at least at the moment. Vandalism is more likely but we can site the bees in a locked area and away from prying eyes.

Does everyone think it's a bad idea to have bees then? I'll admit I was expecting slightly more upbeat feedback.

If you look at what it costs for a beekeeper to start up and then multiply it by four (the number of hives you say you will have room for) you could be looking at £3,000 easily, then you have to factor in the bees, which can be fairly costly depending on the time of year you get them and many other factors too. Putting them somewhere so public you may want to multiply that a few times to factor in all the stuff you would need to replace.

I have seen and heard (infact JBM posted a thread a while ago about bees in a park where some local yobbos decided to push them over/knock the roofs off) of vandalism even in secure areas.

I can assure you that everyone on this forum is either a beekeeper and therefore a lover of the stinging little beauties, or at least an aspiring beekeeper who is also a lover of the stinging little beauties.

Many members of this forum have been keeping bees for decades too.

I would personally heed the advice of the knowledgeable people on here.

Me? I wouldn't want to risk my investment or my girls by whacking them in the middle of a common where all and sundry could get at them.

 

[mike_bike_kite]

I am of course listening to your advice, that's why I'm here! I'll also be meeting someone from the bee keeping association to discuss all these points and see whether we have any safe places for bees on our common. If they believe our proposed site is safe for the bees then the hives will be placed in a locked area that will be hidden from view. Obviously nowhere is completely safe but we can at least try to reduce the risks down to a minimum.

 

[madasafish]

I am of course listening to your advice, that's why I'm here! I'll also be meeting someone from the bee keeping association to discuss all these points and see whether we have any safe places for bees on our common. If they believe our proposed site is safe for the bees then the hives will be placed in a locked area that will be hidden from view. Obviously nowhere is completely safe but we can at least try to reduce the risks down to a minimum.

And make sure your beekeepers don't wear white. It's a giveaway - unless they are installing a nuclear reactor

 

[sean-a]

Is there a flat roof you could use?
Might be better to get the bees and hives up and out of the way of sicky fingers and vandals. Still visible and less chance of stings for the public.

 

[Obee1]

I'll admit I was expecting slightly more upbeat feedback.

You are obviously haven't read around the forum much then! Someone will always disagree with you. Take no notice.
Seems to me that apiary sites in London are really hard to come by so your idea to place bees on the common is great. maybe your local association can find an existing beekeeper to get you started.

Good luck.

 

[Brigsy]

The optimist in me hopes that a populace starved of access to a variety of nature will embrace this, and that the vandals might not want to get their trainers dirty on the common.