Message from defra

einsteinagogo said:

..."Thick" sugar syrup used for winter feeding is made up in a 2:1 ratio of granulated sugar to water (2 lb sugar to 1 pint of water, or 2 kg to 1 litre). This produces 62 % by weight of sugar. We hope this clarifies.

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2lb to 1 pint at around 62% is not 2kg to 1 litre at about 67%. We await the clarification of the clarification.

Oh dear! When will folk learn that 2lb to 1pt is not the same as 2kg to 1lt.

clv101 said:

Oh dear! When will folk learn that 2lb to 1pt is not the same as 2kg to 1lt.

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When Finman buys a jacuzzi.

clv101 said:

Oh dear! When will folk learn that 2lb to 1pt is not the same as 2kg to 1lt.

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But does it matter (only in the minds of those petty people who have nothing better to do than pick holes in others statement - my bees have never objected to 2Kg:1L)

I think in matters when government organisations make direct numerical errors like this. It erodes confidence in their output and it is trivial to avoid with a simple check (is the ratio 2lb to 2kg the same as the ratio 1pt to 1lt).

Clearly it's not a big deal for the bees, however when I've used 2kg to 1lt, it's been a bit of a job to get it dissolved and there's often been some crystallised out left in the bottom of the feeder.

einsteinagogo said:

Just a new email...

NBU Amendment to Ratio Published.

The NBU would like to apologise …

"Thick" sugar syrup used for winter feeding is made up in a 2:1 ratio of granulated sugar to water (2 lb sugar to 1 pint of water, or 2 kg to 1 litre). This produces 62 % by weight of sugar. We hope this clarifies.

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No, you bozos are still muddled.

Metric 2:1 (kilos and litres) is 66.6* % sugars. This is bang on the limit of solubility at 20C. That means its hard to get it to dissolve without extra heating, raising the risks of HMF. And it WILL crystallise out on cold nights. Which WILL block 'contact' type feeders.

"2:1" was invented way back when when imperial units were the standard use (in Britain).
2 lb to 1 pint works. It dissolves without too much trouble, and it doesn't crystallise out on cold nights. It is approximately 60% sugars. If you only think in metric, don't call it 2:1 just call it 60/40 … which means that for each kilo of sugar you should add 2/3 litre of water - as was indicated in the first NBU email, and appallingly badly explained - in both emails.

I think from now on, I'm calling it 60/40 and hoping that catches on …

itma said:

No, you bozos are still muddled.

Metric 2:1 (kilos and litres) is 66.6* % sugars. This is bang on the limit of solubility at 20C. That means its hard to get it to dissolve without extra heating, raising the risks of HMF. And it WILL crystallise out on cold nights. Which WILL block 'contact' type feeders.

"2:1" was invented way back when when imperial units were the standard use (in Britain).
2 lb to 1 pint works. It dissolves without too much trouble, and it doesn't crystallise out on cold nights. It is approximately 60% sugars. If you only think in metric, don't call it 2:1 just call it 60/40 … which means that for each kilo of sugar you should add 2/3 litre of water - as was indicated in the first NBU email, and appallingly badly explained - in both emails.

I think from now on, I'm calling it 60/40 and hoping that catches on …

Click to expand...

I use the recipe and (non-pedantic) attitude in the Haynes book [p. 128], i.e

1. put sugar in bucket,
2. measure the height of sugar
3. Add warm water to a level about an inch over the original sugar line

Works OK for me in my brew bucket with 12k of sugar in each batch so I'm sticking to it

clv101 said:

....

Clearly it's not a big deal for the bees, however when I've used 2kg to 1lt, it's been a bit of a job to get it dissolved and there's often been some crystallised out left in the bottom of the feeder.

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No problems here: boil water, add sugar, heat and stir.

It all dissolves long before it boils again.

madasafish said:

No problems here: boil water, add sugar, heat and stir.

It all dissolves long before it boils again.

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And Manley seemed to cope with 3lbs sugar to one pint water. Must have been doing wrong for all those years

JohnyP said:

I use the recipe and (non-pedantic) attitude in the Haynes book [p. 128], i.e
1. put sugar in bucket,
2. measure the height of sugar
3. Add warm water to a level about an inch over the original sugar line
Works OK for me in my brew bucket with 12k of sugar in each batch so I'm sticking to it

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Or try Ted Hooper's recipe: 'Take any container, half fill with water and then add sugar to fill.'

.
I measured this year first time the the temp

40 kg sugar
Added 80C temp water to the sugar to the same level as sugar
Mixing in a pulsator loundry machine.

Ready syrup was 30C . Hives started to take warm syrup very well. If solution cools over night to the temp 15C, it means difficulties in feeding.
Temp of sugar was about 15C.

Crystals on the bottom of feeder is not a proplem.

.

Finman said:

…

Crystals on the bottom of feeder is not a proplem.

.

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I don't think you've ever seen or used a contact feeder. (Not that I am advocating using the wretched things, but some do insist on using them…)

itma said:

I don't think you've ever seen or used a contact feeder. (Not that I am advocating using the wretched things, but some do insist on using them…)

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Is it same as bucket feeder? ... Then I understand

.

Yes it is.

I wonder about the fuss over Sugar concentration. In an Ivy flow the air is literally buzzing all for a warm 11% sugar concentration in Ivy nectar.
I think i would pay more attention to the temperature and keeping it at temperature than the precise concentration

just use syrup much easier

Ditto I use Ambrosia!

And that's not the yellow stuff from the West Country....! Lol!

itma said:

No, you bozos are still muddled.

Metric 2:1 (kilos and litres) is 66.6* % sugars. This is bang on the limit of solubility at 20C. That means its hard to get it to dissolve without extra heating, raising the risks of HMF. And it WILL crystallise out on cold nights. Which WILL block 'contact' type feeders.

"2:1" was invented way back when when imperial units were the standard use (in Britain).
2 lb to 1 pint works. It dissolves without too much trouble, and it doesn't crystallise out on cold nights. It is approximately 60% sugars. If you only think in metric, don't call it 2:1 just call it 60/40 … which means that for each kilo of sugar you should add 2/3 litre of water - as was indicated in the first NBU email, and appallingly badly explained - in both emails.

I think from now on, I'm calling it 60/40 and hoping that catches on …

Click to expand...

Great call.