Starvation

[Finman]

I pose a challenge - Can some one point out where someone has proved clustering is necessary to honeybee colony survival. I mean necessary in the way that some seed will not germinate unless they have a period of cold.
Must a honeybee colony die if it has not clustered?
THat will mean someone has kept the honeybees nest above 20C all year and it proved fatal in statistically significant numbers?

Apis mellifera lives in whole Africa.

But in my latitudes the rest time in winter is so long that in room temperature colony will die. I can be seen in our glass hives.

Our cellar hives need under 7C temp and total darkness. They need too electrict ventilation. They will not survive in potato cellars.

Most of our hives overwinter in open air here and they all are permanently insulated. In Canada most of hives are wraped with thick insulated coatings. We do not use them.

"statistically significant numbers" ..... You may ask from a guy who has 1500 hives just now.

In Britain hives will overwinter as they have done since ice age. Britain is not hot or cold to Apis mellifera and your bees out there are same stock as in another countries. Almost all genepool is imported during last 50 years. Those ice age genes hardly exist any more.



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[Dishmop]

Must a honeybee colony die if it has not clustered?

Impossible to answer I guess.
How would you know it had or hadnt clustered?

Did you know that bees dont spend a lot of time in the winter actually sitting on thier food? They sit below it and they have to go and get it......They move up to where they stored it..............but....hold on....somebody's nicked it....
If they move sideways they are moving towards the cold walls of the hive...and the colder they get the slower they move.........
The bees in my indoor obs hive must be at least 10deg warmer than those outside but very few of them are actually doing anything in the way of moving more than their body length

 

[itma]

Topping up.. definitely only with fondant now.. I have had some comments from people about extra syrup. No way. Fondant now .. and then in early April, if warm- some Neopoll

Quite apart from pre-Christmas (and specifically pre-Oxalic) fondant feeding being extraordinary in a season where so many had to add extra hive space (by nadiring) in Autumn because their hives were becoming totally stuffed with stores, I have to say that April does sound somewhat late for (starting) protein feeding - noting that you are in Sussex, and not even the frozen North …

 

[user 6228]

Impossible to answer I guess.
How would you know it had or hadnt clustered?

Did you know that bees dont spend a lot of time in the winter actually sitting on thier food? They sit below it and they have to go and get it......They move up to where they stored it..............but....hold on....somebody's nicked it....
If they move sideways they are moving towards the cold walls of the hive...and the colder they get the slower they move.........
The bees in my indoor obs hive must be at least 10deg warmer than those outside but very few of them are actually doing anything in the way of moving more than their body length

You can infer it from temperature in the hive near to the walls. It drops quickly when they cluster.

 

[Dishmop]

I put 2 x 2.5kg blocks on every hive mid October as normal and checking at the weekend most hives have eaten a full block already. All hives were nice and heavy with stores when the fondant was added. Will most likely be adding another 2 blocks mid/late December

They may have stored it, not eaten it.

 

[Stiffy]

Wont be checking until mid December as they went into winter with adequate stores but some of mine have been chomping through stores judging by the number of cappings below hives.
S

 

[Little John]

Just a note to say that I feel this mild winter could give the bees a problem with starvation. They are flying, nothing out there. I have already put fondant on and 2 hives are on their second block. Hives getting lighter already.

Someone has the gift of foresight ...

Heather wrote this back on the 19th November - today is the 10th January - and the BBC have just written about the amount (360 species) of plants currently in bloom:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-30754443

My concern is - warm weather & pollen coming in - might just stimulate the girls into brooding-up early, with the obvious demands that this will bring. And if the weather should turn nasty in February, starvation could then become a very real possibility.

LJ

 

[Cussword]

Topping up.. definitely only with fondant now.. I have had some comments from people about extra syrup. No way. Fondant now .. and then in early April, if warm- some Neopoll

Is the difference between feeding syrup and fondant to do with the temperature ?

 

[Ely]

I'm envious of all this talk on mild winter. My bees have been stuck indoors for at least the last three weeks. I do live in a frost pocket though

 

[REDWOOD]

Yes

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I put 2 x 2.5kg blocks on every hive mid October as normal and checking at the weekend most hives have eaten a full block already. All hives were nice and heavy with stores when the fondant was added. Will most likely be adding another 2 blocks mid/late December

They may have stored it, not eaten it.

In October - especially if mild, they'll pack it in for Ron - I noticed that a few years ago when I put fondant on a strong hive which hadn't had a chance to take much syrup down - they were packing it in a couple of kilos a week for a month - didn't need a new year topup or anything like the other hives and went into the new season fine. Another one which did the same but dwindled early on (failed queen) and by Christmas looked doomed, when I opened up in the spring there were frames with cells packed with fondant.

Might see the case here of a hive going into spring chock a blook with sugar stores

 

[Little John]

I'm envious of all this talk on mild winter. My bees have been stuck indoors for at least the last three weeks. I do live in a frost pocket though

To put some figures on this - here's January's guestimate for the East Coast near The Wash (accuweather seem better at guessing than others).

It's not exactly 'winter' as we've known it in the past :

People on the South Coast must really be cooking at this time of the year ...

LJ

 

[Ely]

It is 2 degrees colder where our house is situated than it is 1/2 a mile down the street. It takes weeks for snow to melt after it is gone everywhere else.

 

[Heather]

I tend to shook swarm start the bees so syrup feed to build wax, it means that I push with protein a little later. Delayed colony start but hopefully healthy for it.

 

[TOBY-3652]

checked mine today and some are getting light one on double brood I could hardly lift it in September now very light.. had to put fondant on 8 colonies today

 

[beeno]

Hi LJ,
Thanks for the link to what's in bloom. My hives in the sun were out collecting both yellow and greyish white pollen today. Not normally yellow pollen this time of the year for my bees!

 

[Fraise]

Snowdrops are in flower today, although it seems too cold for the girls to take advantage.

 

[bontbee]

A couple of my garden hives were flying at 8am yesterday.... Checked in case they might have been getting hungry but hives still feel heavy enough. No pollen coming back yet but, I must admit, I didn't hang around for long. Must check for the snowdrops down the road - and put up a road sign if they are out!

Of course, this is sunny Swansea, (the wettest city in the UK - if you believe pointless quiz programmes on TV!).

 

[Erichalfbee]

Must check for the snowdrops down the road - and put up a road sign if they are out!

For the bees?

 

[bontbee]

of course!