What did I do so wrong?

[steveselvage]

Popped to my out apiary this morning to check the food situation and to give them a blast of oxalic.
To my horror I find that six out of the eleven hives have no bees!
The others don't look very strong either.
Four of the empties have no bees whatsoever and stacks of stores and a block of fondant as well.
The other two dead colonies had a couple of hundred dead bees on the mesh floor.
All have lots of stores and are dry inside and we're treated late summer with apivar and oxalic in October.
I have only ever lost one colony over winter before and can't think what I did for this to happen.
They are close to a stream at the bottom of a valley so it does stay damp but they were there last winter without issues
There was no evidence of disease that I could see in the autumn.
Happy new year

 

[madasafish]

Sorry to hear that.
When did you treat in Autumn? And how.?

 

[steveselvage]

Sorry to hear that.
When did you treat in Autumn? And how.?

Apivar in August and three doses of oxalic a couple of weeks after I removed the strips.
The nucs are fine it seems to be the strongest hives that are dead.
Last winter a guy with an apiary quite close to me lost all of his,16 I think which is why I did the oxalic treatment quite close to removing the apivar as he was at a loss as to why his died out.
I have just checked the hives in my garden and they are all fine and they all had the same treatments.
It is varroa related I think but I don't know how

 

[Michael Palmer]

You treated late summer. What about late spring or early summer? Do you know the varroa load at that time?
When varroa first arrived here, and for many years, treating for varroa in August after honey harvest was sufficient.
Now, it isn't. We need to treat in the spring before supering, so the varroa load is as close to zero as possible. Even with very low spring mite loads,
by August it's too late for many colonies. Virus levels are way too high and colony crashes.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

How often have you used Apivar? mites can develop a resistance to it, when did you treat before the last Apivar dose?
how old were the queens?
when you say 'stacks' of stores, what do you mean?
what was your feeding regime in the autumn?
Don't take too much notice of the old fable about damp killing bees, having an apiary next to a stream is seldom an issue to the bees

 

[jarmo henttu]

Popped to my out apiary this morning to check the food situation and to give them a blast of oxalic.
To my horror I find that six out of the eleven hives have no bees!
The others don't look very strong either.
Four of the empties have no bees whatsoever and stacks of stores and a block of fondant as well.
The other two dead colonies had a couple of hundred dead bees on the mesh floor.
All have lots of stores and are dry inside and we're treated late summer with apivar and oxalic in October.
I have only ever lost one colony over winter before and can't think what I did for this to happen.
They are close to a stream at the bottom of a valley so it does stay damp but they were there last winter without issues
There was no evidence of disease that I could see in the autumn.
Happy new year

Sounds like varroa. Vanishing bee disease. Varroa has killed the new winter pupae, and when summer bees have died, the hive is empty. It is typical that varroa kills half out off hives in one year. Next year the rest of hives.

 

[The Poot]

A bit of a mystery, but another Apivar horror story by the sound of it. The October vape, too late. A real shame.

 

[Wilco]

Do another vape on the survivors now just in case. If they look very small consider dummying down or risk consolidating them.

Varroa is likely especially with the mild weather although I've had a similar treatment regime this year myself and thus far the bees are ok. The other thing I often wonder about is whether there might be winter outbreaks of CBPV.

 

[pargyle]

What did you do wrong ? Nothing by the sounds of it ...there were a lot of reports in South Hampshire of similar colony losses over last winter - Plenty of stores, healthy colonies going into winter and then, very early in winter - empty hives with frames of stores remaining but no bees. It's easy to blame varroa and it may contribute to the situation - I have a theory that it's associated with queen failure in autumn and a lack of winter bees being produced... why ? It seems odd that some colonies succumb in the same apiary and some don't ...

I test for varroa on a regular basis and whilst I don't treat my colonies it's vital to know what the varroa load is ... if you are going to treat you need to know and after treatment you need to know. Sugar rolls are the least invasive method but if you are sublimating with OA then the drop after each vape will give you a good idea. At least if you know the infestation levels you can then either eliminate varroa as the cause or confirm you need more treatment.

 

[steveselvage]

How often have you used Apivar? mites can develop a resistance to it, when did you treat before the last Apivar dose?
how old were the queens?
when you say 'stacks' of stores, what do you mean?
what was your feeding regime in the autumn?
Don't take too much notice of the old fable about damp killing bees, having an apiary next to a stream is seldom an issue to the be

I didn't treat at all during the spring and early summer, I never have.
I do use apivar every time so may be a resistance but this year I vaped as well.
I was quite late feeding as the hives were stuffed with honey and I wanted to leave them some room for brood rather than adding boxes.
The stores are virtually untouched so I think they perished a while ago,the fondant is not touched at all.
One thing I did differently this year was leaving a super of honey on the big colonies instead of feeding syrup.
I also left a couple on double brood instead of condensing them to one box, there was so much brood in both boxes that I felt if I put it all in to one box they would be tight for space for stores.
I've vaped them today but haven't dummied them down to a smaller space as I didn't have anything with me oth
er than the oxalic vape.
I'll go back tomorrow for another look and take some insulation to reduce the space they have to keep warm.
All this year's queen's bar one so they shouldn't be failing although a couple were quite late bred.
I don't think I'll need the couple of dozen boxes I bought in the sales for a while.
Ive just taken on two more apiary sites as well, looks like I won't have enough hives for them.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Now, it isn't. We need to treat in the spring before supering, so the varroa load is as close to zero as possible.

I’m beginning to come to the same conclusion. I’m pretty sure two of my nine colonies are dwindling because of varroa. Summer drops were high and so were some a month later. The demareed colonies fare the worse because the colonies remain big.
Next year I will be vaping them before supers go on.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

All this year's queen's bar one so they shouldn't be failing although a couple were quite late bred

so home raised then, how? just splits and the likes? maybe poorly mated/failed late supersedures, just unlucky it was across the apiary

 

[Wilco]

I didn't treat at all during the spring and early summer, I never have.
I do use apivar every time so may be a resistance but this year I vaped as well.
I was quite late feeding as the hives were stuffed with honey and I wanted to leave them some room for brood rather than adding boxes.
The stores are virtually untouched so I think they perished a while ago,the fondant is not touched at all.
One thing I did differently this year was leaving a super of honey on the big colonies instead of feeding syrup.
I also left a couple on double brood instead of condensing them to one box, there was so much brood in both boxes that I felt if I put it all in to one box they would be tight for space for stores.
I've vaped them today but haven't dummied them down to a smaller space as I didn't have anything with me oth
er than the oxalic vape.
I'll go back tomorrow for another look and take some insulation to reduce the space they have to keep warm.
All this year's queen's bar one so they shouldn't be failing although a couple were quite late bred.
I don't think I'll need the couple of dozen boxes I bought in the sales for a while.
Ive just taken on two more apiary sites as well, looks like I won't have enough hives for them.

The Summer was poor for mating this year IMO.

Depending on how many you have at the end of the winter, you may be able to get numbers up again this season and have enough to expand. You could always collect a few swarms and use one of the new sites as a quarantine site for them then use the other sites for any splits from existing colonies. If you buy in some queens it would mean those splits grow much faster.

I lost a few last winter, you can build back. Just learn from it.

And don't rue having spare kit, means you can feel smug when everyone else says they haven't got enough mid season!

 

[Do224]

Next year I will be vaping them before supers go on.

How many vapes do you reckon or depends on the drop after the first one?

 

[Erichalfbee]

How many vapes do you reckon or depends on the drop after the first one?

They will be brooding so they will get four

 

[steveselvage]

Finally got to my apiary to remove the dead hives today.
Every one had an untouched super of honey on and lots of capped stores in the broodbox.
I did notice in every one there was a lot of uncapped and very watery nectar/ syrup in the comb, I could shake it out easily.
A couple had some evidence of diarrhoea on a few frames, not much but small patches.
They were fed a bought in syrup, I don't make my own since I've had more than six colonies as it's time consuming and not much cheaper. The syrup was much thicker than the stuff that came out of the frames.
I then put back a full super and a chunk of fondant, a bit overkill but I've always done it, maybe that is the problem,too much room but I don't think so as there hasn't been a frost yet.
No dead brood present and very few bees on the frames but the ones that were there had their heads in the cells as if starved.
I cut out all of the brood combs and will be making some firelighters this afternoon in preparation for the promised cold spell.

 

[markb2603]

Finally got to my apiary to remove the dead hives today.
Every one had an untouched super of honey on and lots of capped stores in the broodbox.
I did notice in every one there was a lot of uncapped and very watery nectar/ syrup in the comb, I could shake it out easily.
A couple had some evidence of diarrhoea on a few frames, not much but small patches.
They were fed a bought in syrup, I don't make my own since I've had more than six colonies as it's time consuming and not much cheaper. The syrup was much thicker than the stuff that came out of the frames.
I then put back a full super and a chunk of fondant, a bit overkill but I've always done it, maybe that is the problem,too much room but I don't think so as there hasn't been a frost yet.
No dead brood present and very few bees on the frames but the ones that were there had their heads in the cells as if starved.
I cut out all of the brood combs and will be making some firelighters this afternoon in preparation for the promised cold spell.

How much did you feed in the autumn? One possibility is you could have over fed and clogged up the brood nest with stores which prevented enough winter bees being produced and as a result the colony just dwindled out

 

[steveselvage]

How much did you feed in the autumn? One possibility is you could have over fed and clogged up the brood nest with stores which prevented enough winter bees being produced and as a result the colony just dwindled out

That could well be the answer, I may have over fed them restricting the laying space and what looked strong colonies In autumn had no winter bees in the pipeline.

 

[steve1958]

How much did you feed in the autumn? One possibility is you could have over fed and clogged up the brood nest with stores which prevented enough winter bees being produced and as a result the colony just dwindled out

Exactly what happened to me last year.
Lost all my colonies except for one.
Winter was late in starting, and lots of mild days here in the South.
So the Bees were out flying instead of resting.
Many of my winter Bees didn't make it through the winter.
The Hives were full of food, but very few bees.
Over the past 18 years I have followed the same pattern of extracting honey in August, then treating for varroa, then feeding them.
After this I would leave them alone till spring apart from an oxalic acid treatment for Christmas.
However with the changes in environment here in the South I have found my previous system no longer works.
Winter has been late in starting again this year. There's even wasps still about.

 

[steveselvage]

Exactly what happened to me last year.
Lost all my colonies except for one.
Winter was late in starting, and lots of mild days here in the South.
So the Bees were out flying instead of resting.
Many of my winter Bees didn't make it through the winter.
The Hives were full of food, but very few bees.
Over the past 18 years I have followed the same pattern of extracting honey in August, then treating for varroa, then feeding them.
After this I would leave them alone till spring apart from an oxalic acid treatment for Christmas.
However with the changes in environment here in the South I have found my previous system no longer works.
Winter has been late in starting again this year. There's even wasps still about.

What is your current over wintering method?
I could do some tips from local beekeepers.
The ones I have left don't look too good