Price of honey jars - up , up , up

[Karol]

Hypothetical, since both ozone and hydrogen peroxide with biological agents and their use as a sterilizer would not affect the glass.
Beverage bottlers typically use pure alcohol as a sanitizer prior to filling. The fruits that arrive at your house go through an ozone disinfection process.

Hypothetical with zero concept of the vagaries of the process. Heat sterilization is always safer than gaseous sterilization - every time.

 

[fian]

Hypothetical with zero concept of the vagaries of the process. Heat sterilization is always safer than gaseous sterilization - every time.

It depends on the components. In the case of glass iii, heat can affect its resistance while gas does not. In the case of borosilicate glass it would be just as safe. Another thing is that the heat is more efficient in terms of cost, but that is something that depends on the production process.
What I still don't understand is why so much insistence that nothing changes, if for some beekeepers the continuous purchase system is a valid and safe system, why complain about the cost?

 

[user 20297]

The difficulty would always be proving it ... retailers sell products that could be contaminated in packaging these days in order to avoid contamination by customers handling the goods as well as for the convenience.

Anyone can walk into Tesco and help themself to sweets from the Mix-n-Match, unsupervised. It's not ideal; no-one can be certain that the items they buy haven't already been handled or even sampled! But it works and it's been like that for at least the time that our 15 year old grandson has been around. I wouldn't eat anything from the selection (except the white chocolate mice which are irresistible, covered in spit or not). At the level where most of my "at- the-gate" customers function, I expect that a honey dispenser would be cleaner at the end of the day than I left it in the morning.

With its famously antiseptic properties honey is probably one of the most favourable products to dispense in this way. Just a pity that with the ambient temperature in Scotland for most of the year and with the type of honey that it mainly produces it's a non-starter since my honey is better dispensed with a carving knife.....hang on, haven't I read about that somewhere?

 

[Ian123]

The difficulty would always be proving it ... retailers sell products that could be contaminated in packaging these days in order to avoid contamination by customers handling the goods as well as for the convenience.

But the customer is not handling the goods they’re not scooping the honey out by hand. I’d suggest there’s less handling than most supermarket veg displays.
As to proving contamination that works both ways so again it’s likely to reduce a beeks chance of lability.

 

[Ian123]

Let’s face it it adds a little theatre and feel good for the customer, he’ll I’m sure some will add the word raw to the tank Funny how these items are often found in countries that hold honey in higher regard. What container the customer uses is down to them, I’d suggest any retailer would also have some empty jars to hand just in case.

 

[JamezF]

It appears that at least some "refill shops" sell liquid food products to customers who bring their own containers, so I'm guessing the problem has been resolved somewhere along the line. Perhaps the overall risk might be considered lower for an operation selling those as a small part of a range of products rather than a beek just selling the one thereby making it more viable?

James

 

[JamezF]

Let’s face it it adds a little theatre and feel good for the customer, he’ll I’m sure some will add the word raw to the tank

I'd have at least three, labelled "raw", "natural" and "pure".

James

 

[user 20297]

I'd have at least three, labelled "raw", "natural" and "pure".

James

....draught???

 

[JamezF]

....draught???

Ah, now, there's an idea! Carbonated honey! Of course it would sell. People will buy almost anything these days. I could probably even import a load of that cheap Chinese stuff to use and keep the actual honey for people who actually appreciate it.

James

 

[Newbeeneil]

Ah, now, there's an idea! Carbonated honey! Of course it would sell. People will buy almost anything these days. I could probably even import a load of that cheap Chinese stuff to use and keep the actual honey for people who actually appreciate it.

James

I bet you are too late with that idea James. I seem to remember @pargyle mentioning something like that in one of his patenting moments!

 

[Karol]

It depends on the components. In the case of glass iii, heat can affect its resistance while gas does not. In the case of borosilicate glass it would be just as safe. Another thing is that the heat is more efficient in terms of cost, but that is something that depends on the production process.
What I still don't understand is why so much insistence that nothing changes, if for some beekeepers the continuous purchase system is a valid and safe system, why complain about the cost?

I think you miss the point. Gaseous sterilization as a process is fraught with the risk of failure, i.e. it is just as likely to fail as succeed. In which case why sterilize? Sanitisation which is the process that most beekeepers are actually employing won't kill everything but then one doesn't necessarily have to so long as there are no harmful pathogens to start with. Hence the need to know the providence of the jars hence better to start with virgin glass jars that won't have been contaminated by lord only knows what. A cheap virgin type III glass jar ticks all the right boxes and only needs to be sanitised rather than sterilized because it won't have been contaminated in the first place. I love the saying "keep it simple stupid!"

 

[Moobee]

I can't see a way that you can confidently have punters filling their own jars (or even jars that you provide) that guarantees that satisfactory hygiene can be maintained. I could see that the shopkeeper could do it and be sure .... but even then ... what's the point ? We are going back to the 1950's when our greengrocer was a horse and dray who came every Saturday morning .. weighed then tipped your veg in to your shopping bag and refilled your vinegar bottle from a barrel on the back of the dray.

I'm all for saving on disposable, land fill packaging but ... glass jars and metal lids are fully recyclable ... and the cost of re-sterilising - dishwasher then 2 hours in the (dubiously sterile) oven at 160 degrees ....

It's a non-starter.

And yet there are all these refillery shops popping up offering anything from olive oil to soap powder in your own containers….

 

[Karol]

And yet there are all these refillery shops popping up offering anything from olive oil to soap powder in your own containers….

There's a reason why food and pharmaceuticals are packaged securely. That lesson seems to have been somewhat forgotten.

 

[Erichalfbee]

We have two re-fill shops with the Lyson heated acrylic tank.
We supply tank & honey, they just sell it.
Both fill the customers jar for them, both have seen an almost doubling of honey sales since putting the tanks in store.
Heating is vital, as one found out over the Christmas break.
As already mentioned, any type of jar can be filled as it belongs to the customer, all the revelent details regarding the honey are on a label on the tank, TS up to now are quite happy with one of the stores recently having an inspection.

I'm curious, What is the price differential between honey in jars and honey in tank? Have you just factored in the cost of the jars and labels and absorbed the cost of the tank? Or is it the same?

 

[KJB]

A dairy farm near us sell "raw" milk and encourage you to bring your own jar or reuse the one they sell. The have recently opened 2 new outlets in a farm shop and a coffee shop. Customer does all the refills themselves but has no access to the milk other than pushing a button. The liability issue must be passed to the customer to ensure that the glass bottles are sterile.

 

[Karol]

A dairy farm near us sell "raw" milk and encourage you to bring your own jar or reuse the one they sell. The have recently opened 2 new outlets in a farm shop and a coffee shop. Customer does all the refills themselves but has no access to the milk other than pushing a button. The liability issue must be passed to the customer to ensure that the glass bottles are sterile.

I'm curious. How do they pass on liability to the customer?

 

[Newbeeneil]

I'm curious, What is the price differential between honey in jars and honey in tank? Have you just factored in the cost of the jars and labels and absorbed the cost of the tank? Or is it the same?

This was exactly my thought, the only cost saving would be the cost of jarring, label and jar which I work out as about 80p/lb. (I would still have to do all the warming and filtering to ensure the honey was presentable for the display)
It would take quite a while to get a return on the investment of the display/dispensing equipment.

 

[KJB]

I'm curious. How do they pass on liability to the customer?

I have no idea but as they can't access the milk and it has to pass daily testing and a record kept of same I am guessing that therefore the consumer has responsibility for the cleanliness of the bottle. I had a conversation with the farmers daughter who is the brains behind it and that is what she was saying. I am just passing on some information that I had heard but I am not an expert on this

 

[ericbeaumont]

Heating is vital

Thanks for the feedback, HH. Looks like you and Ian are right: it's worth paying for the Abelo heated.

factored in the cost of the jars and labels and absorbed the cost of the tank?

I'd write the tank off against tax and reduce the cost of jars & labels. The slight reduction over jar price will be attractive to regulars, but to recoup the tank cost in the retail price would negate that customer advantage.

Clipper-Micro-Lighter-Assorted-Colours

LED strip light round the base might work.

 

[enrico]

A dairy farm near us sell "raw" milk and encourage you to bring your own jar or reuse the one they sell. The have recently opened 2 new outlets in a farm shop and a coffee shop. Customer does all the refills themselves but has no access to the milk other than pushing a button. The liability issue must be passed to the customer to ensure that the glass bottles are sterile.

I believe you can only sell raw milk from the farm that produces it. I am sure it is not allowed to be sold through a third party!!
I only drink raw milk