Price of honey jars - up , up , up

[Ian123]

Thanks for the feedback, HH. Looks like you and Ian are right: it's worth paying for the Abelo heated.


I'd write the tank off against tax and reduce the cost of jars & labels. The slight reduction over jar price will be attractive to regulars, but to recoup the tank cost in the retail price would negate that customer advantage.


LED strip light round the base might work.

I think the bases in all those models are steel so any up light will not work, you may have to settle for some sort of back light…..Down side with any lighting is it will show up bee legs in the honey
I think these things are worth a try and you’d hope any outlay is recouped in additional sales. I think most good independent food outlets rely on a bit of theatre and customer engagement these days, if it adds to it all the better. I certainly can’t see health concerns and according to antipodes his shop saw a marked increase in sales but I guess it would take a while for people to become aware.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I'm curious. How do they pass on liability to the customer?

They just sell the milk. A dairy farm local to me does it. they have a machine that dispenses milk that they pasteurise at the farm. You go to the machine, select the product you want - plain milk or various flavoured milkshake (litre or half) you pay by card, open a door to the dispensing area, put in your own container, close the door and press 'fill' it fills the bottle, you take it out, close the door then the machine goes through a wash cycle of the dispensing area and nozzle before you can select another product.
They have a separate self service machine there where you can buy new, clean bottles and replacement lids.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I'd write the tank off against tax and reduce the cost of jars & labels. The slight reduction over jar price will be attractive to regulars, but to recoup the tank cost in the retail price would negate that customer advantage.

Of course. I still look at beekeeping with hobby eyes.

 

[Murox]

Its an appealing idea, however the price of the dispenser is rather shocking and although there is a new self service type of food shop in the area I shan't be buying one anytime soon.

 

[pargyle]

And yet there are all these refillery shops popping up offering anything from olive oil to soap powder in your own containers….

They came along in the late 1970's and early 1980's ... I remember them then ... they died out.... it's not a new idea. But ... I think, once you have found a piece of fingernail or a long human hair in your free range, unpackaged, scooped out of the bin into your own plastic bag, sold loose, cornflakes ... it rather puts you off ! They died out before, they were a marketing gimic then and they are a marketing gimic now, they will fail again.

I'm not a germophobe .. I grew up in the back streets of South Yorkshire in the 1950's - we lived with playing in the dirt, with a bath once a week whether we needed it or not ...we still had polio, diptheria, scarlet fever, measels ... all of which caused deaths on occasions. We were lucky, we had our own outside toilet and a hot water gas geyser for a hot bath in a bathroom (albeit the toilet was outside !) many of my friends shared an outside toilet with several neighbours, the bath was a tin one on the back wall of the house and the water was a cold tap in the kitchen, with a bit of luck, for some a communal hand pump serving the square of terraced houses.

We've learnt about germs since then ... we know how they spread and how easily they spread - the world has just suffered the biggest pandemic since the flue scourge of 1918 ...we have all learned more.

There is probably only minimal risk in re-using jars returned to you, there is probably little risk from punters filling their own jars from a tank full of honey ... do I want to take the risk of someone with a disease passing it on whilst using a honey gate ? No, I don't.

I lived through a childhood where hygiene was still not fully understood ... where campaigns to catch your germs in a handkerchief and to wash your hands after using the toilet were necessary to educate a public that were, in many cases, ignorant of the ways germs spread. I still see well educated and presumably intelligent people who still seem to be ignorant of basic personal hygiene, do I want to risk my health in my old age by returning to the days when all food was sold loose ? Not at all.

I can't see the need for honey to be sold loose ... or sold in second hand jars. There are better ways to save the planet.

 

[pargyle]

They just sell the milk. A dairy farm local to me does it. they have a machine that dispenses milk that they pasteurise at the farm. You go to the machine, select the product you want - plain milk or various flavoured milkshake (litre or half) you pay by card, open a door to the dispensing area, put in your own container, close the door and press 'fill' it fills the bottle, you take it out, close the door then the machine goes through a wash cycle of the dispensing area and nozzle before you can select another product.
They have a separate self service machine there where you can buy new, clean bottles and replacement lids.

Yep ... well thought out, totally hygienic, dispensing ... there's been one of the farms on the TV program - This Farming Life - who has installed one of those machines set up to sell their own pasteurised milk - pasteurised on the farm. £100K investment !

 

[Karol]

Yep ... well thought out, totally hygienic, dispensing ... there's been one of the farms on the TV program - This Farming Life - who has installed one of those machines set up to sell their own pasteurised milk - pasteurised on the farm. £100K investment !

There's a difference between liability and process though. There's a very big difference in risk between honey and milk not least because of the difference in water of activation levels that helps suppress microbial growth in honey. The milk dispenser is fine until something goes wrong and then it'll be a question of playing the finger pointing game to apportion liability.

Were a customer to die of salmonella it would still fall on the seller to prove they hadn't sold contaminated milk. That's no easy thing.

 

[fian]

There's a difference between liability and process though. There's a very big difference in risk between honey and milk not least because of the difference in water of activation levels that helps suppress microbial growth in honey. The milk dispenser is fine until something goes wrong and then it'll be a question of playing the finger pointing game to apportion liability.

Were a customer to die of salmonella it would still fall on the seller to prove they hadn't sold contaminated milk. That's no easy thing.

And in the same honey, change salmonella for chloristridium botulinum.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

I believe you can only sell raw milk from the farm that produces it. I am sure it is not allowed to be sold through a third party!!
I only drink raw milk

We used to keep a nanny goat. Wonderful stuff is goat's milk

 

[JamezF]

We used to keep a nanny goat. Wonderful stuff is goat's milk

Not as good as dog's milk...

Holly: Nothing wrong with dog's milk. Full of goodness, full of vitamins, full of marrowbone jelly. Lasts longer than any other type of milk, dog's milk.

Lister: Why?

Holly: No bugger'll drink it. Plus, of course, the advantage of dog's milk is that when it goes off, it tastes exactly the same as when it's fresh.

James

 

[MillMeadow]

They came along in the late 1970's and early 1980's ... I remember them then ... they died out.... it's not a new idea. But ... I think, once you have found a piece of fingernail or a long human hair in your free range, unpackaged, scooped out of the bin into your own plastic bag, sold loose, cornflakes ... it rather puts you off ! They died out before, they were a marketing gimic then and they are a marketing gimic now, they will fail again.

I'm not a germophobe .. I grew up in the back streets of South Yorkshire in the 1950's - we lived with playing in the dirt, with a bath once a week whether we needed it or not ...we still had polio, diptheria, scarlet fever, measels ... all of which caused deaths on occasions. We were lucky, we had our own outside toilet and a hot water gas geyser for a hot bath in a bathroom (albeit the toilet was outside !) many of my friends shared an outside toilet with several neighbours, the bath was a tin one on the back wall of the house and the water was a cold tap in the kitchen, with a bit of luck, for some a communal hand pump serving the square of terraced houses.

We've learnt about germs since then ... we know how they spread and how easily they spread - the world has just suffered the biggest pandemic since the flue scourge of 1918 ...we have all learned more.

There is probably only minimal risk in re-using jars returned to you, there is probably little risk from punters filling their own jars from a tank full of honey ... do I want to take the risk of someone with a disease passing it on whilst using a honey gate ? No, I don't.

I lived through a childhood where hygiene was still not fully understood ... where campaigns to catch your germs in a handkerchief and to wash your hands after using the toilet were necessary to educate a public that were, in many cases, ignorant of the ways germs spread. I still see well educated and presumably intelligent people who still seem to be ignorant of basic personal hygiene, do I want to risk my health in my old age by returning to the days when all food was sold loose ? Not at all.

I can't see the need for honey to be sold loose ... or sold in second hand jars. There are better ways to save the planet.

Some of those lessons take a while to sink in, there was an outbreak of dysentry at Sheffield schools earlier this year.

 

[Clivewoodford]

We have two re-fill shops with the Lyson heated acrylic tank.
We supply tank & honey, they just sell it.
Both fill the customers jar for them, both have seen an almost doubling of honey sales since putting the tanks in store.
Heating is vital, as one found out over the Christmas break.
As already mentioned, any type of jar can be filled as it belongs to the customer, all the revelent details regarding the honey are on a label on the tank, TS up to now are quite happy with one of the stores recently having an inspection.

Interested to know what temperature are you keeping the honey at, anything over 20c for extended periods of time would increase HMF levels

 

[drex]

From " the hive and the honey bee" at 30 degrees it takes 150 to 250 days for HMF to get up to 30ppm. Doubt sales are that slow. I think the legal limit for sales is 40

 

[Somerford]

Meanwhile the supermarkets use the cheapest jars they can source in huge bulk and sell their honey for 79p a jar.

you could buy that, tip the 'honey' out , clean the jar and re use it and you'd probably still be in profit

 

[Ian123]

you could buy that, tip the 'honey' out , clean the jar and re use it and you'd probably still be in profit

Give it 6 months!!!!………..But don’t waste it I’m considering an article for bbka suggesting it’s used for open feeding, it will probably be the first time some of the contents has been even close to an actual bee

 

[JamezF]

Give it 6 months!!!!………..But don’t waste it I’m considering an article for bbka suggesting it’s used for open feeding, it will probably be the first time some of the contents has been even close to an actual bee

Wouldn't be surprised if the bees refused to eat it

James

 

[colinc]

The problem is that you have to include the cost of the jar in the purchase price of the honey and jars are seen, by most people, as disposable/recyclable. You would not sell your honey for the premium price the borosilicate jars would require and educating people that these are re-usable and returnable ? Difficult for honey sold through retail ... We would be returning to a system of 'refunds on bottle returns' that was prevalent in my youth and which died with the advent of PET and food grade polythene containers.

I'm hopeful that someone will eventually develop a clear, robust, environmentally sound, disposable container that could be used for honey, in the meantime we are stuck with single use glass jars.

If the jars we have available for honey could be safe for re-use I know a lot of my direct customers would happily return them to me when they re-purchase - indeed, some of them do insist on returning the jars even though I tell them that they will not be re-used - but until we can have access to re-usable glass at a cost that is not prohibitive ... we don't have that option.

I am sure I saw a YouTube video by Richard Noel of Bees in Brittany saying he was in the process of switching to ‘commercially’ compostible pots, the type that looks like plastic but can be commercially 60degC composted. Europe still has the economies of scale to push these newer technologies though but we may see these appearing soon.

 

[Newbeeneil]

I am sure I saw a YouTube video by Richard Noel of Bees in Brittany saying he was in the process of switching to ‘commercially’ compostible pots, the type that looks like plastic but can be commercially 60degC composted. Europe still has the economies of scale to push these newer technologies though but we may see these appearing soon.

These are available in small sizes - 4 oz but not sure how robust.
https://www.vegware.com/uk-en/catalogue/portion_pots/

 

[Ian123]

Wax honey pots anyone
https://www.thedesignstory.com/blog...is-not-only-biodegradable-but-also-digestible

 

[colinc]

These are available in small sizes - 4 oz but not sure how robust.
https://www.vegware.com/uk-en/catalogue/portion_pots/

Pretty sure the ones I saw were 500g pots and looked pretty solid like soup pots. Not as good presentation as glass but he has a customer base buying in larger volume plastic pots by the look of the videos.