Nosema Help

[Galaxy55]

I am going to take over 3 hives which are located on an allotment. Bees have recently been tested and have heavy Nosema. Been advised to do a 'shook swarm' replacing brood boxes with clean,disinfected boxes and to completely change all frames and replace with new foundation.
Bees themselves after making a slow start to the year have made steady progress with Hive 1 now full of bees lots of brood at different stages etc. Hive 2 very poor at the beginning of the year, thought they were going to die out but have pulled through and in the last week have gone from 3 to 5 frames of bees. Hive 3 similar to hive 1.
The suggested shook swarm seems very drastic but I can see that this would obviously have an immediate impact on the Nosema, my worry is how will the bees cope? Do I need to feed them if I do this?
I am looking for advice, was going to buy these hive and probably still will. Had a very steep learning curve to bee keeping.
All this to consider and don't want to offend the chap who these bees belong to.
Any help appreciated.

 

[Erichalfbee]

What a start to beekeeping.
I personally would not take these on as a beginner but if you do then you should be paying for only the hardware and not the bees in my opinion.
There is a very good thread on just this problem here
http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=24174&highlight=tom+bick+nosema
AND a very good solution.

Good luck

 

[Galaxy55]

What a start to beekeeping.
I personally would not take these on as a beginner but if you do then you should be paying for only the hardware and not the bees in my opinion.
There is a very good thread on just this problem here
http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/sho...om+bick+nosema
AND a very good solution.

Good luck
__________________
ericA

Thanks for the prompt reply ericA. Just had a quick look at the thread you suggested and lots of advice - thanks.
Already tried adding Tea Tree Oil to sugar syrup which seems to be improving the situation an idea I got from U-T-BE.

Thanks again

 

[BeeJayBee]

don't want to offend the chap who these bees belong to.

With respect, I think worrying about offending the current beekeeper is the least of your concerns. Nobody should offer bees for sale knowing they are sick.

 

[Eyeman]

Getting them on to fresh foundation will reduce the problem with slow spring build up which is a common finding with nosema Apis. The new kid on the block. N Ceranea may not respond in the same way, only time will tell.
Don't forget to check varroa levels and if high then I would definitely do a shook swarm, the bees will then be brood less and can be treated with oxalic acid. Also when doing a shook swarm for disease have a second person with you to put the old frames in a black bin bag for destruction. Only way to guarantee you remove any residual disease and will stop you looking at a fine frame of brood and saying I can't throw that away!!!!
Alec

 

[Galaxy55]

Thanks for the advice Eyeman - you are exactly right it will be very hard to ditch what looks to be a perfect frame of brood and having no experience of this before it seems pretty drastic. I know it is necessary to give them the best chance of survival.
Thanks for the advice.

 

[Skyhook]

Thymol is very effective. I would suggest feeding with thymolised 1:1 syrup when you shook swarm. This will give them resources to draw the frames, whilst blocking transmission of nosema to the new frames.

.

 

[Tom Bick]

What a start to beekeeping.
I personally would not take these on as a beginner but if you do then you should be paying for only the hardware and not the bees in my opinion.
There is a very good thread on just this problem here
http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/sho...om+bick+nosema
AND a very good solution.

Good luck
__________________
ericA

Thanks for the prompt reply ericA. Just had a quick look at the thread you suggested and lots of advice - thanks.
Already tried adding Tea Tree Oil to sugar syrup which seems to be improving the situation an idea I got from U-T-BE.

Thanks again

Hi Galaaxy55 If you are able to get the ingredients to make up the thymol premix, then I would highly recommend you give it a go as it worked wonderfully for me and my bees last year. They were on a downward spiral and the simple treatment reversed it and without the need to comb change. I intended to comb change this spring and as yet not quite done it yet, although its on the list, with the bees still on old comb I was a bit worried so it just so happened that I tested the bees once more this evening and I could not see a single nosema spore. I did however requeen two of the hives last year as I suspected the queens had been infected and were not performing that great, the third hive superseded. All three hives are doing great with one especially so.

 

[Eyeman]

I feed thymol syrup to the bees in their winter feed. My understanding is:
1. It definitely controls fermentation of the stores.
2. It's probably the reason most of use no longer have problems with Tracheal mites.
3. It may have a beneficial effect on varroa levels?
4. The jury is out at present on whether it helps control nosema at the concentration we are using.
Alec

 

[Skyhook]

I feed thymol syrup to the bees in their winter feed. My understanding is:
1. It definitely controls fermentation of the stores.
2. It's probably the reason most of use no longer have problems with Tracheal mites.
3. It may have a beneficial effect on varroa levels?
4. The jury is out at present on whether it helps control nosema at the concentration we are using.
Alec

What jury's that then? Every report I've heard rates it as equal to or better than antibiotics.

.

 

[Tom Bick]

There are a couple of good papers on the Internet showing excellent results from thymol added to winter syrup regarding nosema. I would link them but unable to do so from my phone but have them on the computer at home and will link them later if no one else does so first.

 

[Galaxy55]

Thanks for all the help. One of the hives earlier in the year was very weak, oly 2 frames of bees and I fed them 1 to 1 syrup with a small amount of Tea Tree Oil which seems to of had a big impact - now 5 frames of bees - no dead bees and looking much healthier.
Tom I looked at your thread from last year as suggested by ericA and found it very useful. The thymolised syrup seems to have a number of good write ups. Just got to gather everything I need now.

Thanks again for all the help.

Mark

 

[Tom Bick]

Just for the record

 

[Eyeman]

A lot of my views are based on randy Oliver's appraisal of the scientific literature. This is what he said after he tried thymol syrup.
[With great hopes I fed several hundred gallons of thymolated syrup to my own infected colonies. Unfortunately, my results do not support the efficacy of thymol, nor do other short trials that I have seen from Europe and Canada. I am currently testing it at 3x strength. It may yet prove to be effective in the long term, but I’d consider it experimental for the time being.[/QUOTE]

So the Jury is still out

 

[Eyeman]

Hi Tom
I've always wondered whether the thymol treatment for varroa that I and others use later summer is what clears the nosema, rather than the lower dose in thymolated syrup.
Alec

 

[HiveAlive]

Hi all,

If you are interested in adding thymol to the hive, HiveAlive is a product that incorporates thymol as well as a blend of MacroAlgae and lemongrass.


Hope all is going well with your hives now Galaxy55!

Linda

 

[madasafish]

What jury's that then? Every report I've heard rates it as equal to or better than antibiotics.

.

+1

I feed thymol syrup every spring. No nosema and low mite levels for the past 5 seasons...

So thymol syrup is either the bees knees or I am a brilliant beekeeper (which is demonstrably untrue)

 

[itma]

A lot of my views are based on randy Oliver's appraisal of the scientific literature. This is what he said after he tried thymol syrup.
"With great hopes I fed several hundred gallons of thymolated syrup to my own infected colonies. Unfortunately, my results do not support the efficacy of thymol, nor do other short trials that I have seen from Europe and Canada. I am currently testing it at 3x strength. It may yet prove to be effective in the long term, but I’d consider it experimental for the time being."

So the Jury is still out

Errr, Randy Oliver isn't an expert on Nosema. As he writes, it was a new disease to him.
I have never seen any indication that he continued his experiments.

He used 1x Manley's strength of Thymol - normally used simply to prevent syrup going mouldy.
As you'll read on this forum, the advice is to use something like 3x Manley AND, importantly, to emulsify it, so that it actually gets into the bees rather than just floating on the surface of the syrup.

 

[Galaxy55]

Surprised to see this thread resurrected but it give me the opportunity to add an updated. All 3 colonies survived and have done very well, far better than I expected at the beginning of the year. All have 2 supers on them and just waiting for them to finish fully capping the honey.
At the beginning of the year I was thinking I would have 3 hive that would die out but they have fought and won against the Nosema although I haven't tested them again yet. Thinking about using a small amount of thymolised syrup to help them get through the winter and hopefully avoid any Nosema next season, may add some tea tree oil.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

Varroa is your next hurdle; thymol-based treatments have the advantage of the impact on any lingering nosema. And I would DEFINITELY feed them some thymolated 2:1. Have you foung Hivemaker's stickies?