Double Brood box for Winter ?

[Jed D]

Sorry to mention the W word in August ' But I need to plan ahead and give the girls plenty of time to re-jig their homes.....

This year is the first year all our colonies have been on Double national brood boxes.. And the plan has worked ( to some degree )

I'm guessing we'll have a brood gap somewhere this month..
So I'm wondering if this will be a good time to shrink them back to single brood boxes ??? with the option of popping a super underneath for winter..

At the moment , our biggest colonies are currently on 13/14 frames of brood and the smaller ones 8/9.

I've already noticed in some of our colonies a bit of " back filling "
By this I mean food within the capped brood area..

A double brood box for winter just seems to be a massive area.....

 

[Finman]

.
If you now restrict the brooding into one box, they will over winter in a single
box. That is the system how it goes in Finland. Many professionals do so.

But it depends too how they stop brooding and do the hive has space to store winter food.

 

[enrico]

You could, but, you could also keep them on double brood and remove the bottom one at the beginning of next year if you need to. My argument would be if they need double brood then why remove one at all? They will move into the top one as the food diminishes over winter in the bottom box, but they will start to use it again as the year gets going again. If you do need to remove it for new frames etc then early spring would be best
E

 

[B+.]

A double brood box for winter just seems to be a massive area.....

I over winter established colonies in double Langstroths and nucs that haven't grown out of a single box by the end of July as a single.

 

[B+.]

Yyou could also keep them on double brood and remove the bottom one at the beginning of next year if you need to.

....or .... you could leave it on to insulate them from the cold near the ground, then reverse the boxes when it warms enough so the queen has space to lay

 

[masterBK]

If you take off one of the brood chambers then you have to find a place to store it against wax moth etc. I keep most of my colonies on doubles in an out apiary so I don't want to be lugging boxes back home. They are better stored and looked after by the colonies and I find you don't get isolation starvation with doubles (possibly as the bees can move to the stores via the bee space between the BCs so don't need to venture into cold areas).

 

[Jed D]

Well , it's seems I'm worrying about nothing then.
I was concerned about the volume of the boxes and cold weather..

Here comes the Barefoot beekeeper bit....
I liked the idea of double brood ,because it seemed more natural i.e. letting the girls expand up aswell sideways..
From my point of view, its worked well. easy swarm control / good size colonies, etc..
While not all the colonies have filled ever bit of space avaliable , I'm sure they will as winter approaches.

I'll ad-lib it , and watch the size of the colonies.
Last year , I put supers under all b/boxes anyway....
All combs & frames are good , so no need to change any. And yes , where better to store them..

 

[user 6228]

A bigger colony needs less insulation to be at the same level of thermal stress as a smaller one in the same class of enclosure, BUT the bigger colony will need more stores and wiill generate more water. HOWEVER, a bigger colony has a greater collecting capacity, unfortunately its both stores and pathogens.

 

[Eyeman]

Hi
If you move the old brood frames to the side of the box now then when the brood has emerged these can be removed and replaced with dummies - I use x2 50mm kingspan exposed edges sealed with aluminium tape, which replaces x3 frames.
My double nationals get dummies down by 3 frames each for winter. This leaves enough stores and in spring the dummies are replaced with foundation as and when needed.
This works for my strain of locals!

 

[Goran]

Mine.

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/album.php?albumid=576&pictureid=3087

Bees are in upper part ( as seen by area where snow is missing on the hive wall), below just empty combs - usually.

 

[Tremyfro]

Mine.

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/album.php?albumid=576&pictureid=3087

Bees are in upper part ( as seen by area where snow is missing on the hive wall), below just empty combs - usually.

I wonder if you see this with a poly hive? Anyone know?

 

[Finman]

I wonder if you see this with a poly hive? Anyone know?

Cluster starts wintering there where brood was last time.
IT is normal that cluster is in lower box and upper box is empty. That is bees' natural habit. My 28 years with polyboxes and no difference with other boxes.

Bad to survive then if cluster is up and food store down. Isolation starving is easy then.


Basic skills of wintering. It does not help if you see in winter where the cluster is in the middle of winter.

I move brood frames to lowest box when I take last honey off.
Then I move pollen frames from sides that they do not tame mold during winter.
.

 

[Finman]

Hi
If you move the old brood frames to the side of the box now then when the brood has emerged these can be removed and replaced with dummies - !

When I arrange the hive for winter feeding, I move brood frames to lowest box , and to the centre. .... What are dummies?

When the colony has filled the hive and gas capped food, I do not open it any more and no arrangements. Hive is so full of bees that no idea to open it.

 

[oliver90owner]

Your colonies may have brood over thag many frames, but that will not be complete frames at this time of the year. I would expect the outer frames in the bottom box are stores which could be moved up and brood moved down, leaving more laying space in the bottom box. Adding an excluder with her downstairs sorts the job out. In three weeks all the brood in the top box will be gone and you can do what you want with the honey and frames in the top box.

 

[Finman]

Your colonies may have brood over thag many frames, but that will not be complete frames at this time of the year. I would expect the outer frames in the bottom box are stores which could be moved up and brood moved down, leaving more laying space in the bottom box. Adding an excluder with her downstairs sorts the job out. In three weeks all the brood in the top box will be gone and you can do what you want with the honey and frames in the top box.

That is best advice for late summer

 

[Tremyfro]

Your colonies may have brood over thag many frames, but that will not be complete frames at this time of the year. I would expect the outer frames in the bottom box are stores which could be moved up and brood moved down, leaving more laying space in the bottom box. Adding an excluder with her downstairs sorts the job out. In three weeks all the brood in the top box will be gone and you can do what you want with the honey and frames in the top box.

I have some colonies on double poly brood boxes. There are brood frames in both boxes ATM.
Your recommendation is to move all brood frames down...all stores frames up. I am not sure how many frames of brood there are altogether in each of the colonies....I know one had 14 frames of brood at the last inspection....so they wouldn't all fit in the lower box. So I guess the queen is not yet reducing her brood. Do you do this say...in September...when honey supers have all been taken off and brood nest decreasing? Do you leave any frames of stores on the outside of the brood? Can you tell me why not leave them in the two brood boxes...to arrange the stores and brood as they want to ....or does this lead to problems? I thought that then in the spring the brood would be in the upper box and I could take out the lower one....to replace old comb etc

 

[user 6228]

Sorry to mention the W word in August ' But I need to plan ahead and give the girls plenty of time to re-jig their homes.....

This year is the first year all our colonies have been on Double national brood boxes.. And the plan has worked ( to some degree )

I'm guessing we'll have a brood gap somewhere this month..
So I'm wondering if this will be a good time to shrink them back to single brood boxes ??? with the option of popping a super underneath for winter..

At the moment , our biggest colonies are currently on 13/14 frames of brood and the smaller ones 8/9.

I've already noticed in some of our colonies a bit of " back filling "
By this I mean food within the capped brood area..

A double brood box for winter just seems to be a massive area.....

remember overwintering in a 1.5m tall cavity is "average" for honeybees.
(seeley& morse 1976).

 

[Finman]

.
I use 3 langstroth brood boxes in summer. When it is time to start feeding, I look how much bees will be in Winter cluster. IT is 3 weeks to feeding start and I do not have slightest idea in what condition hives wil be. I must only take care that queens have space to lay.

Queens are young. We have plenty of flowers and clusters will be fine.
Most queens have started now to lay. Since now they will rear Winter bees.

Half or my hives will over winter in one box and half in two box, so I suppose.
I know it after 3 weeks.

No need to plan more than wait what happens.

 

[Finman]

remember overwintering in a 1.5m tall cavity is "average" for honeybees.
(seeley& morse 1976).

In Finland most hives are overwintered in one langstroth box. No one has 1.5 m cavities. Beekeepers put excluders into hives in the middle of main flow and it rules the wintering space.

.

 

[B+.]

In Finland most hives are overwintered in one langstroth box.

When would you usually reduce your colonies to a single box Finman?
It seems that you have a later season than we do in the UK