Wasps nest near to hives. Leave or remove?

[jonnybeegood]

I appreciate the JBG likes wasps. He has a wasp avatar. He may even be wearing a yellow and black jumper.

The idea of a forum is to learn and debate where we feel fit. If I wanted to follow blindly down a single route, I would join the bbka.

I respect JPG for standing up and liking wasps in a place where so many people hate the bl**dy things.

Early in the season they do a lot of good. It is just a shame they are such a menace to bees late on.

Thankyou much appreciated. I wouldnt say i like wasps but i like all creatures, i just dont know why people cant respect wildlife & maybe learn more about it rather than fear it & resort to killing for no reason. I'm not a troll or trouble maker as some think, i just have a huge passion for wildlife & cant stand it when people see the easy way out is to kill things. That is why animals like the Eastern cougar has just become extinct simply because people just dont understand what they are doing. By the way, the wasp in my Avatar is a chinese paper wasp, it was flying around my conservatory, not into the windows like daft bees but with a purpose, like it was looking around for a way out. I tried to catch it & it went for me lol, i caught it in a glass & let it go, the next day it came in again, maybe not the same one but the only time i have ever seen one

 

[BeeJayBee]

If youve a thousand nests every mile i think that wouldnt be a problem, that would be a plague.

It isn't a linear mile, it's a square mile which is 3,097,600 square yards (1,760yd x1,760yd) or just over 2,589,988 square metres which makes the territory for each individual wasp nest quite large. I'm sure you don't need me to work out the exact area.

i just dont know why people cant respect wildlife & maybe learn more about it rather than fear it & resort to killing for no reason

Nobody here has shown any disrespect for wildlife, nor has anybody suggested that killing wasps "for no reason" is a good thing to do. Nobody has shown any ignorance of a wasps life cycle, nor an irrational fear of these creatures.

I have destroyed wasp nests in the past, not often, and only when they have proved themselves to be a real nuisance. I will not let wasps be a nuisance to my bees, and if I find a nest close to the apiary I know which insect takes precedence. The welfare of my bees is my responsibility, and is more important than the welfare of a single colony of wasps. It isn't being afraid, it's being realistic, and is making a reasoned decision.

Somebody interested in keeping, and encouraging, wasps might try to persuade a colony of bees to live in a nearby tree so as to provide a food source later in the year. Although wasp-keeping has been discussed at some length on the Scottish forum I'm not sure it will ever be as popular as beekeeping.

As for responding to OP - killing one wasp nest because it is in the wrong place might be a reasonable thing to do, especially if that wasp nest is close to a colony of bees.

 

[Karol]

It makes me smile to hear people diss the 1000 wasp nests per square mile figure when one considers that the average density of housing is something like 9000 dwellings per square mile in rural areas and as much as 18,000 dwellings in urban areas. So 1000 wasp nests per square mile is something like 1 property in 10 having a nest!

And of course I'm the big bad wasp pot salesman with an agenda so don't trust a word I say!

Coming back to wasp nests close to hives then I think there are a couple of interesting things that you might like to think about before taking any action. Firstly, wasps as a rule don't feed in the immediate vicinity of their nest. If anything their sentries will chase away wasps from other nests. During the hunting phase of the wasp life cycle (which represents the greatest risk to a hive) having nests in close proximity t a hive may actually help protect the hive from other 'foreign' hunting wasps going after brood for protein (the hardest type of attack to combat). Later on when the local nests start sweet feeding then control is comparatively more simple if so required.

The other interesting thing about treating wasp nests is that invariably it back fires when it's done prematurely during the hunting phase of the life cycle in the wrong way and the wrong time of day. When a wasp nest is treated so that the sentries are killed, or access to the nest is denied, the returning foragers don't or can't re-enter the nest. During the hunting phase of the wasp life cycle foragers get their 'sugar' from their grubs through trophallaxis. Treating the nest denies the foragers access to their food source potentially creating thousands of hungry wasps which then precipitates premature attacks on hives (rather than preventing them) which is counterproductive. Waiting until the nest start sweet feeding naturally will avoid the risk of artificially extending the sweet feeding phase of the life cycle and therefore reduce the extent of risk on the hives.

Nothing about nature is simple except our ignorance of it.

My advice would be wait and see how you go assuming that the nests are within territorial distance of your hives (circa less than 10 metres) and monitor closely for problems.

 

[pargyle]

And of course I'm the big bad wasp pot salesman with an agenda so don't trust a word I say!

Not to the vast majority on here ... A valuable source of information based on a vast knowledge of these critters and loads of experience...

Very interesting post thanks ..

As an aside, I've hardly seen any wasps in my garden this year ... loads of other insects but even when we were barbecuing in the sun a couple of weekends ago .. none at all - most unusual ! They are usually queuing up to get at any meat left on the plates ...

 

[Finman]

.
To monitor wasp problem? How it happens? How it should be done that it meets the scientific needs of beekeeping forum? Number of stings or what? Only stings to the face are counted. Other stings are normal life.

If a wasp stings, should we say, be patient, it is weather which make them angry, your fault, you got what you earned.


Hm. Nature lover's life can be complex. He cannot protect himself any more, but wasp can.

 

[Ely]

Thankyou much appreciated. I wouldnt say i like wasps but i like all creatures, i just dont know why people cant respect wildlife & maybe learn more about it rather than fear it & resort to killing for no reason. I'm not a troll or trouble maker as some think, i just have a huge passion for wildlife & cant stand it when people see the easy way out is to kill things. That is why animals like the Eastern cougar has just become extinct simply because people just dont understand what they are doing. By the way, the wasp in my Avatar is a chinese paper wasp, it was flying around my conservatory, not into the windows like daft bees but with a purpose, like it was looking around for a way out. I tried to catch it & it went for me lol, i caught it in a glass & let it go, the next day it came in again, maybe not the same one but the only time i have ever seen one

People here do respect wildlife. You are missing the point. The wasps are 4m from the hive! They are in the working space of the beekeeper. That is unsafe for both Colonies and beekeeper. Let's keep it in context shall we?

 

[jonnybeegood]

It makes me smile to hear people diss the 1000 wasp nests per square mile figure when one considers that the average density of housing is something like 9000 dwellings per square mile in rural areas and as much as 18,000 dwellings in urban areas. So 1000 wasp nests per square mile is something like 1 property in 10 having a nest!

And of course I'm the big bad wasp pot salesman with an agenda so don't trust a word I say!

Coming back to wasp nests close to hives then I think there are a couple of interesting things that you might like to think about before taking any action. Firstly, wasps as a rule don't feed in the immediate vicinity of their nest. If anything their sentries will chase away wasps from other nests. During the hunting phase of the wasp life cycle (which represents the greatest risk to a hive) having nests in close proximity t a hive may actually help protect the hive from other 'foreign' hunting wasps going after brood for protein (the hardest type of attack to combat). Later on when the local nests start sweet feeding then control is comparatively more simple if so required.

The other interesting thing about treating wasp nests is that invariably it back fires when it's done prematurely during the hunting phase of the life cycle in the wrong way and the wrong time of day. When a wasp nest is treated so that the sentries are killed, or access to the nest is denied, the returning foragers don't or can't re-enter the nest. During the hunting phase of the wasp life cycle foragers get their 'sugar' from their grubs through trophallaxis. Treating the nest denies the foragers access to their food source potentially creating thousands of hungry wasps which then precipitates premature attacks on hives (rather than preventing them) which is counterproductive. Waiting until the nest start sweet feeding naturally will avoid the risk of artificially extending the sweet feeding phase of the life cycle and therefore reduce the extent of risk on the hives.

Nothing about nature is simple except our ignorance of it.

My advice would be wait and see how you go assuming that the nests are within territorial distance of your hives (circa less than 10 metres) and monitor closely for problems.

I am not disagreeing but can you show me where the 1000 nest figures come from? I am curious because to say 1 in 10 houses on average has a nest doesnt make sense, there must be hundreds of thousands of houses in towns & cities without nests, especially in these concrete jungles, so that means for this rule to apply on an average of 1 in 10 that some houses would have to be over run with nests. I'm not arguing here it just doesnt make sense.
But i do agree with the rest of your post.

 

[thenovice]

It makes me smile to hear people diss the 1000 wasp nests per square mile figure when one considers that the average density of housing is something like 9000 dwellings per square mile in rural areas and as much as 18,000 dwellings in urban areas. So 1000 wasp nests per square mile is something like 1 property in 10 having a nest!

And of course I'm the big bad wasp pot salesman with an agenda so don't trust a word I say!

Coming back to wasp nests close to hives then I think there are a couple of interesting things that you might like to think about before taking any action. Firstly, wasps as a rule don't feed in the immediate vicinity of their nest. If anything their sentries will chase away wasps from other nests. During the hunting phase of the wasp life cycle (which represents the greatest risk to a hive) having nests in close proximity t a hive may actually help protect the hive from other 'foreign' hunting wasps going after brood for protein (the hardest type of attack to combat). Later on when the local nests start sweet feeding then control is comparatively more simple if so required.

The other interesting thing about treating wasp nests is that invariably it back fires when it's done prematurely during the hunting phase of the life cycle in the wrong way and the wrong time of day. When a wasp nest is treated so that the sentries are killed, or access to the nest is denied, the returning foragers don't or can't re-enter the nest. During the hunting phase of the wasp life cycle foragers get their 'sugar' from their grubs through trophallaxis. Treating the nest denies the foragers access to their food source potentially creating thousands of hungry wasps which then precipitates premature attacks on hives (rather than preventing them) which is counterproductive. Waiting until the nest start sweet feeding naturally will avoid the risk of artificially extending the sweet feeding phase of the life cycle and therefore reduce the extent of risk on the hives.

Nothing about nature is simple except our ignorance of it.

My advice would be wait and see how you go assuming that the nests are within territorial distance of your hives (circa less than 10 metres) and monitor closely for problems.

Thanks for this! we learn every day...

 

[Cussword]

People here do respect wildlife. You are missing the point. The wasps are 4m from the hive! They are in the working space of the beekeeper. That is unsafe for both Colonies and beekeeper. Let's keep it in context shall we?

Not to mention 3m from her doors. I'm not an advocate for killing anything unnecessarily but there are times when it is needed. This does seem to be one of those times.

 

[YorkshireBees]

People here do respect wildlife. You are missing the point. The wasps are 4m from the hive! They are in the working space of the beekeeper. That is unsafe for both Colonies and beekeeper. Let's keep it in context shall we?

Funny you should say that. I was in one of my out apiaries at the side of a field and put a spare crownboard down on the ground in long grass whilst I was doing a hive inspection. When I came back to pick it up I noticed a dowzen or so wasps flying about just above it. I removed the crownboard and watched for minute or so and located the hole to the nest.
It is 2m or less from a hive.

I will monitor if the hives have any problem later in the season but I have had wasps nests near to those hives before and had no problems.

After what Karol has posted maybe I should encourage them to nest near to my hives!!!

 

[kazmcc]

Oh right, someone selling their wasp trap highlighting the problems of wasps, excellent! If youve a thousand nests every mile i think that wouldnt be a problem, that would be a plague.

In this debate, I'm with you JBG, but on this I'm afraid I disagree. Karol is a huge supporter of wasps, and it is because of him I am no longer phobic, and because of the things he taught me, I have gone on to find out more about them, and different species.

Pargyle I belong to an aculeates group, and there are still lots of people posting pictures of wasps nests that are only just being started, so maybe they are starting later in your area

I think the best thing to do to start with is find out exactly which species you are dealing with. Then decide what to do next.

 

[Ely]

Funny you should say that. I was in one of my out apiaries at the side of a field and put a spare crownboard down on the ground in long grass whilst I was doing a hive inspection. When I came back to pick it up I noticed a dowzen or so wasps flying about just above it. I removed the crownboard and watched for minute or so and located the hole to the nest.
It is 2m or less from a hive.

I will monitor if the hives have any problem later in the season but I have had wasps nests near to those hives before and had no problems.

After what Karol has posted maybe I should encourage them to nest near to my hives!!!

As a small child, I pulled the tail of a relatives dog. The first four or five times were OK. The 6th time it bit me

 

[jonnybeegood]

As a small child, I pulled the tail of a relatives dog. The first four or five times were OK. The 6th time it bit me

 

[peteinwilts]

As a small child, I pulled the tail of a relatives dog. The first four or five times were OK. The 6th time it bit me

I cross a road most days. So far, I have not been run over.

everyone performs risk evaluations every day. This is what this thread is about.

 

[Finman]

Every year wasps try to make their nest under rain cover of my hives. I brake them all. what I have done..... 50 y x 20 nest .... I have destroyed 1000.00 wasp hives during my life. Make it better!

 

[Finman]

everyone performs risk evaluations every day. This is what this thread is about.

You forgot jonny the good
.

 

[Karol]

As a small child, I pulled the tail of a relatives dog. The first four or five times were OK. The 6th time it bit me

It's an interesting fact that the vast majority of people stung by wasps are stung away from nests. If we were to take a straw poll of beeks stung by wasps I suspect that most beeks will have been stung doing things other than treating or dealing with wasp nests. So it's important to put risk into perspective. There's a world of difference between yanking the tail of an unknown dog and exercising due diligence and showing respect for a known nest. If one is wearing a bee suit anyway then where's the problem? If the risk is unacceptable then clearly appropriate action should be taken. No one is suggesting otherwise. That said, treating a nest may well increase risk rather than reduce it and this should also be borne in mind.

 

[jonnybeegood]

It's an interesting fact that the vast majority of people stung by wasps are stung away from nests. If we were to take a straw poll of beeks stung by wasps I suspect that most beeks will have been stung doing things other than treating or dealing with wasp nests. So it's important to put risk into perspective. There's a world of difference between yanking the tail of an unknown dog and exercising due diligence and showing respect for a known nest. If one is wearing a bee suit anyway then where's the problem? If the risk is unacceptable then clearly appropriate action should be taken. No one is suggesting otherwise. That said, treating a nest may well increase risk rather than reduce it and this should also be borne in mind.

Totally agree, well said