To clip, or not to clip, that is the question.

[Finman]

How about this kind of thing:
http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/311105366401

That makes no sense. Hehheh.

And grafting tool. I make it from birch twig with knife.


.

 

[For want of a better word]

eBay item number:
271362100030

I have been using similar for 5+ years, easy to use with latex type gloves
Remember to wipe with stealising fluid between queens.

I sit in car and put queen hands etc in a large clear plastic bag to prevent her flying off... simply hold gently between thumb and forefinger, and clip with other... marking can be carried out at same time.
The Beemaster who showed me the technique never wore any gloves when beekeeping.

I use a butterfly queen clip to take the queen off the frame... Dennis just picks them up!

Did meet a lady in Sussex/Surrey boarders, some years ago, who said she always put the queen in her mouth for safe keeping , before marking and clipping.... DON'T try it!!!



Yeghes da

 

[Finman]

.
Yeah!, keep simple things complex!

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Did meet a lady in Sussex/Surrey boarders, some years ago, who said she always put the queen in her mouth for safe keeping , before marking and clipping.... DON'T try it!!!

Yeghes da

If SWMBO tried that she might get a swarm move in - what's the ideal size for a bait hive again?

 

[midnight sun]

How about this kind of thing:
http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/311105366401

I bought some of these to try (I think from same source). They were garbage!
These type of cutters are VERY expensive for a good set. If they are cheap, there is a reason. Save your money and buy a pair of good dissecting scissors or similar.

 

[For want of a better word]

If SWMBO tried that she might get a swarm move in - what's the ideal size for a bait hive again?

So cruel!

Yeghes da

 

[maddydog]

Clipped my first q today. Used a brand new pair of nail clippers. Gently picked hm up and carefully clipped a third off one wing. Popped her back on the comb where she gave a quick buzz of her wings and carried on as normal. No reaction from the workers.

 

[masterBK]

If you have clipped queens and use mesh floors there is a tendency for the swarm plus queen to end up underneath the mesh floor and build wild comb there (and not be discovered by the beekeeper for quite a while).

 

[masterBK]

Here is the photo to go with previous post

 

[wessexmario]

Beautiful.
but so much for "they prefer 40 litres"

One thing you can reliably predict about bees... you can't reliably predict anything about them.

 

[Finman]

If you have clipped queens and use mesh floors there is a tendency for the swarm plus queen to end up underneath the mesh floor and build wild comb there (and not be discovered by the beekeeper for quite a while).

How many times this has happened to you?

.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Beautiful.
but so much for "they prefer 40 litres"

One thing you can reliably predict about bees... you can't reliably predict anything about them.

They don't have much choice if the queen is clipped, do they, it is no longer a natural swarm that can go wherever they choose, so the Q- swarm returns to the hive, and the queen who tried to leave with them, but cannot fly, returns to the thousands of bees fanning on the hive, but only manages to climb up under the mesh floor, where often she stays.

 

[masterBK]

In answer to Finman's question. This has happened three times in my apiary but I know several other beekeepers that also have had this happen. I did witness a swarm issue and eventually come back & settle on the side of the adjacent hive (the queen presumably could fly a little way as both wings had been clipped) and that went underneath the mesh floor as well. I collected the swarm so they had no time to build comb. Didn't get the problem when on solid floors.

 

[Finman]

.
I have not realized that, that queen return sometimes to the hive. But colony tryes to swarm again perhaps next day, and finally queen will be lost into bushes.

What ever, if swarm leaves, it must return to home and wait that they get a normal virgn.

If queen has normal wings, swarm may leave when ever.

Ok, but 3 times is not much. Not even a rule.

 

[Into the lions den]

Answering several questions in one go......

1. Tesco embroidery scissors......dead cheap, and the holes are fine even for my Cumberland sausage like digits.
2. Clipping and marking takes about 2 minutes to complete (less for experienced hands)....seems so basic it should not need explaining yet comes up all the time at meetings and apiary visits here....should make a 2 minute video. Our youngsters here are clipping and marking bare handed within a couple of weeks of starting here.
3. It does not cause supercedure at any higher rate than normal. Rough handling of the frames is far more dangerous, as is improper use of the smoker driving bees out the door by only smoking at the open top of the box, and causing the queen, especially of 'runny' types, to end up outside and potentially lost.
4. No need to keep her away from the bees for a few minutes after clipping and marking. Just drop her right back onto the comb or onto the topbars and let her go down by herself.
5. It DOES buy time. With a clipped queen they really cannot go till the last minute, often as the virgins are piping away and even starting to cut themselves out. Unclipped queens can go amazingly early if the conditions are perfect for swarming. Have seen them go often off unsealed cells, and occasionally off larvae only a day or two old. Clipped queens never do this.
6. No eggs left is no guarantee the old queen has gone. She MAY still be there if clipped. The slowing down of laying and fining down of the body ready for flight can take place some time before the swarm actually departs, but conversely have seen queens in full lay take to the wing too.
Nothing is fixed in this business. The bees do not play by anything other than their own rules, which can vary from colony to colony and definitely varies season to season.
7. Even if you DO lose a top swarm, unless your colony started off a bit on the small side ( low vigour types can go off remarkably small nests), you will lose secondary swarm(s) (castes or casts, whichever guru you read up on) with virgins too.

An immensely long subject.......could fill a book on its own.

 

[Into the lions den]

Here is the photo to go with previous post

LOL...oh yes.........and 'brings forth intemperate language' when, devoid of protective clothing, you are loading hives for the heather at 5am. Not only do they fill the floor recess, they normally fill in under it in the pallet structure too.

The origin of the underfloor swarm need not be the hive it has made its home beneath. Indeed we have found (VERY occasionally) swarms there that simply could not have come from our own bees. Clipped queens can run, even entering the wrong hive on occasions, and in extreme cases you can find a few queens in an apiary in the wrong hives. Not common, only in extreme swarm fever conditions, but does happen.

 

[Finman]

.
And my favorite...

When I clip all queens, still I can see a swarm hanging in the tree branch.

Then I see a queen. Old queen and not clipped.

..

 

[Into the lions den]

Well, should say thanks to a local non clipper today....................almost the earliest swarm I can recall arrived in an empty hive either Thursday or Friday...............headed by a green marked queen but not clipped.

Suspect however someone has been trying to overwinter very small nucs or mating boxes. This swarm will be hard pressed to cover two BS bars. Bees very black, almost glossy. and despite being a swarm, therefore normally very gentle, they are far too 'nippy' for my liking. Not decided its fate yet............. Great pollen gatherer though. Some of Finmans 'black devils' lol.

 

[Dishmop]

Once when my obs hive swarmed I found the clipped queen climbing up the wall towards the hive entrance.

 

[mbc]

Yes that could happen, but not if you know what your doing, that is why it is most likely called... bee keeping.

As opposed to...bee waving goodbye to, as they head over the horizon..lol..we've all been there