Swarms not as plentiful this year

[Curly green finger's]

I might reunite her with the hive I split her from as that was mid May and no sign of a new queen yet although lots of polished cells…..

If they’ve made space for her and. You have polished cells I’d give it another week .

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

she’s now in a cage for a few days until the bees fatten her up again!!

fattening her up will make no difference to her ability to fit through a QX as it's the thorax size that stops her going through - and that doesn't get bigger with feeding.

 

[RJC]

Received wisdom (always a worrying phrase) suggests that cast swarms are headed by a virgin. So far this year i have picked up 6, either in bait hives or as a result of a call-out. all now have laying Qs My most recent was on Saturday evening. It was very small, about the size of an orange, and only really covered one frame, and thinly at that. Anyhow, popped them into a poly nuc, with a couple of pints of syrup to give them a chance. Just checked on them and eggs present! It surely couldn't have been a virgin queen, could it?

 

[Curly green finger's]

Received wisdom (always a worrying phrase) suggests that cast swarms are headed by a virgin. So far this year i have picked up 6, either in bait hives or as a result of a call-out. all now have laying Qs My most recent was on Saturday evening. It was very small, about the size of an orange, and only really covered one frame, and thinly at that. Anyhow, popped them into a poly nuc, with a couple of pints of syrup to give them a chance. Just checked on them and eggs present! It surely couldn't have been a virgin queen, could it?

Doesn’t sound like it , has the swarm been split up some how or maybe a lot of the swarm have gone back to where they have come from ?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Received wisdom (always a worrying phrase) suggests that cast swarms are headed by a virgin. So far this year i have picked up 6, either in bait hives or as a result of a call-out. all now have laying Qs My most recent was on Saturday evening. It was very small, about the size of an orange, and only really covered one frame, and thinly at that. Anyhow, popped them into a poly nuc, with a couple of pints of syrup to give them a chance. Just checked on them and eggs present! It surely couldn't have been a virgin queen, could it?

well obviously they weren't casts then!
Or have you swallowed the 'received wisdom' that the size of the swarm determines whether it's a cast or a prime headed by a mated queen?

 

[Curly green finger's]

well obviously they weren't casts then!
Or have you swallowed the 'received wisdom' that the size of the swarm determines whether it's a cast or a prime headed by a mated queen?

What would you say has happened ?
its obvious that the swarm is part of a prime swarm .

 

[RJC]

well obviously they weren't casts then!
Or have you swallowed the 'received wisdom' that the size of the swarm determines whether it's a cast or a prime headed by a mated queen?

Think I must have done! All I can say then is that if this was a prime swarm, then it must have come from very small colony. As to where the rest of the swarm went, if that is the scenario then I don't know; there were no other bees in the tree, and I've no idea where they originated from. But as I've said earlier it has been a strange swarm season for me this year; lots of casts (or small prime swarms!). The weather here, in contrast to what seems to have been the case elswhere has been cold and overcast, with a NE wind coming off the sea. Although Rutland sounds central, as the crow flies it's only about 40 miles from the Wash, and there are no hills inbetween!

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

What would you say has happened ?
its obvious that the swarm is part of a prime swarm .

why a part?
not all prime swarms are massive,
just the same as not all casts are small

 

[Curly green finger's]

why a part?
not all prime swarms are massive,
just the same as not all casts are small

I was just thinking of different sinarious possibly come from a feral colony ?

 

[Sutty]

All sorts of possible scenarios.
Maybe someone nearby had a nuc that got overcrowded & swarmed, so a fairly small colony. Or even a mating nuc left to do its own thing.
Could have been a swarm when there was another swarm very nearby & some of the bees were attracted to that, leaving a smaller cluster.
Etc

 

[Curly green finger's]

All sorts of possible scenarios.
Maybe someone nearby had a nuc that got overcrowded & swarmed, so a fairly small colony. Or even a mating nuc left to do its own thing.
Could have been a swarm when there was another swarm very nearby & some of the bees were attracted to that, leaving a smaller cluster.
Etc

Indeed who knows we will never no .

 

[Nannysbees]

Called to a house, the street behind us, the lady had beeb away for a few days, apparently there was a sizeable swarm first thing this morning by the time we popped around today, it was a very sorry sight. Will be interesting to inspect ours this week to see if it was from one of our hives!!!!

 

[Moobee]

fattening her up will make no difference to her ability to fit through a QX as it's the thorax size that stops her going through - and that doesn't get bigger with feeding.

Ah of course, it’s the ovaries that swell but she’s not a tiny queen so can’t believe she squeezed through the QX.
Just trying to stop her escaping. Again! She’s obvs not too happy so I might reunite with hive she came from as they don’t appear to have requeened (frame of eggs went in yesterday to check)…..

 

[Moobee]

I was just thinking of different sinarious possibly come from a feral colony ?

I caught a cast from a feral colony almost two weeks ago (I know it was a cast as I was also called out to what I presume was the prime - huge & left my skep not long after I had snagged them) , it was a really decent size and I couldn’t believe how heavy the nuc was after I had them all in.

 

[JamezF]

Called to a house, the street behind us, the lady had beeb away for a few days, apparently there was a sizeable swarm first thing this morning by the time we popped around today, it was a very sorry sight. Will be interesting to inspect ours this week to see if it was from one of our hives!!!!

Looks like they'd been there a while judging by the size of the comb they'd built. What's up with the ones on the ground?

James

 

[masterBK]

Where are all these multitudes of swarms coming from? I have had 6 swarms go into spare equipment stored outside in my garden during May. Down at the out-apiary have had a further half a dozen swarms go into bait hives yet only one has come from my colonies ( a colony with three year old queen built two cells so I assumed Supersedure and let them get on with it and they swarmed!.) My other 21 colonies I were demareed and these have not produced any swarm cells although I have used some of the cells generated in the demaree top box of my best colonies to make up a few nuclei.

I can think of a several reasons why beekeepers lose swarms and much is down to how they carry out swarm control if they bother to do it at all!.
As a beekeeping speaker, I visit dozens of associations throughout the UK and talking to their members many tell me they leave two queen cells in their hives after the prime swarm has gone as insurance in case one is a dud (For insurance I make up a small nucleus eg apidea and pop in a spare swarm cell).
In addition, many having discovered recently formed swarm cells carry out some form of artificial swarm reducing the cells to one in the queenless portion but then do not go back into the hive 5 or 6 days later to eliminate the emergency cells that such colonies tend to build around worker larvae so colony swarms on the selected cell and casts on emergency cells. Many also do not bother to check the queenright portion a few days after carrying out the artificial swarm. Some still in "swarm fever" can and do sometimes build swarm cells on the one or two frame of broods present especially if the rest of the brood box is filled with frames of foundation (probably because they are congested onto those brood frames as foundation is not good at relieving congestion in the brood box plus the older bees present not quick at drawing foundation.

 

[JamezF]

I imagine the swarms are coming from all the places they usually come from. Surely the question is why there appear to have been so many, so early in the season?

the older bees present not quick at drawing foundation.

Not sure I follow that at all. The older bees will be out foraging, surely, leaving the younger bees to deal with drawing comb?

James

 

[pargyle]

Looks like they'd been there a while judging by the size of the comb they'd built. What's up with the ones on the ground?

James

They look like dead bees to me ?... very odd - I wonder if someone has given them a dose of wasp spray ...? It's not cold or wet and there's still forage about I would not expect to see that quantity of dead bees on the ground from a swarm ...

 

[JamezF]

They look like dead bees to me ?... very odd - I wonder if someone has given them a dose of wasp spray ...? It's not cold or wet and there's still forage about I would not expect to see that quantity of dead bees on the ground from a swarm ...

My thoughts were along very similar lines.

James

 

[Nannysbees]

Looks like they'd been there a while judging by the size of the comb they'd built. What's up with the ones on the ground?

James

All dead, weird isn't it!!!