Separating Paynes poly (brood) boxes

[TryingToLetThemBee]

As summer moves on, my bees have become quite propolis-ey and it is getting harder to separate boxes. I worry about the impact on my Paynes poly boxes. I notice Swienty seem to have hard yellow plastic inserts. I can eventually mod some into mine, but have not done so yet. I worry about the wear and tear in the meantime; I cannot pull them apart and jamming a hive tool in there don't feel too good.

What do people do?

 

[madasafish]

Vaseline the joins..

 

[theeggman]

On the side with the narrow central rib there is a gap between the two surfaces under the rib, I insert the bent end of the hive tool into the gap, no force needed, and twist. Haven't done any damage 'yet'.

Tim.

 

[Finman]

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It is not propolis which keep boxes tight. It is lots of burr in bee space and frames are clued with combs.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

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It is not propolis which keep boxes tight. It is lots of burr in bee space and frames are clued with combs.

My equipment is new so brace comb is not a big issue. That's the point; I want to keep it that way.

Thanks all for the ideas; Maybe I should go with the flow and put in cloths to catch it. I have one Maisemore cedar box in there where the frames sit on wood cut at angle and it flows off the rails like molten wax.

 

[Swarm]

Use your hive tool carefully keeping it flat, there is no difference from a wooden hive. As above, easy access can be gained by starting at the narrow mid rib.

Swienty are the same, just poly. It's MB hives that have the plastic inserts.

 

[Finman]

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i have had polys 27 years. Propolis is not a problem.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

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i have had polys 27 years. Propolis is not a problem.

Well I have about that many weeks' experience and I'm struggling. It's funny because it's allegedly a Buckfast colony and meant to be less propy, but it makes the most. But it's the most valuable bee product so I'll not complain.

 

[Ely]

I had a problem with the poly bubbles ripping away. Vasaline sorted it. I'm having real problems crushing bees now though when returning the boxes to the stack. No matter how slow or gentle I am there are always 4 or or five or more that get squished. They just seem to love running out and over the sides this season. I inspect alone so I can't smoke them out of the way. I'm starting to feel awful

 

[Teemore]

Spray the box edges with a water mister before reassembling - the bees tend to stay clear and you crush less. Since the walls on these poly boxes are thicker, it is hard not to crush a few bees upon reassembly, especially when you are running double broods with 4+ supers....
Vaseline is really helpful with these boxes but you do need to reapply it from time to time and doing so delays the time the hive is open.... I tend not to have any problem with brace comb between boxes but some of my bees do propolise the boxes together and when you separate them, pieces of the poly can get pulled out. I have a few boxes from other suppliers and have not experienced this problem with them - so far!

 

[Ely]

Spray the box edges with a water mister before reassembling - the bees tend to stay clear and you crush less. Since the walls on these poly boxes are thicker, it is hard not to crush a few bees upon reassembly, especially when you are running double broods with 4+ supers....
Vaseline is really helpful with these boxes but you do need to reapply it from time to time and doing so delays the time the hive is open.... I tend not to have any problem with brace comb between boxes but some of my bees do propolise the boxes together and when you separate them, pieces of the poly can get pulled out. I have a few boxes from other suppliers and have not experienced this problem with them - so far!

Thanks. So the idea is that they shouldn't like walking over the wet surface?

 

[Magwat]

I inspect alone so I can't smoke them out of the way. I'm starting to feel awful

I inspect alone and when I reassemble my poly hives (wood too) I put a stone or curved hive tool on one edge of the hive. I then only have to clear the bees from the opposite side initially when putting the next box on top. Once I have got that side lined up I hold up the other side & remove the stone / hive tool. I gently but quickly lower & lift that side of the box several times just a centimetre or so which gives the bees on the surface a chance to escape. I find very few crushed bees between the boxes. It is a little trick that I was taught by my mentor, now sadly no longer with us.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

What happened to the idea of putting on boxes at an angle of rotation then gently turning them into place? You can smoke the four wedge-shaped gaps if you do that too.

 

[Magwat]

2 poly surfaces don't slide against each other very readily. I've never tried Vaseline so don't know if that would make them slide more easily.

 

[Finman]

when you separate them, pieces of the poly can get pulled out. - so far!

You have wrong type tool, if it crushes poly.

I twist poly up from one corner and then another.
It gives a sound when propolis breaks.

I use knife.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

You have wrong type tool, if it crushes poly.



I twist poly up from one corner and then another.

It gives a sound when propolis breaks.



I use knife.

Ah so there's my original question answered. Thanks, Finman.

 

[Ely]

What happened to the idea of putting on boxes at an angle of rotation then gently turning them into place? You can smoke the four wedge-shaped gaps if you do that too.

Tried this to no avail. Just to many bees here there and everywhere

 

[itma]

Tried this to no avail. Just to many bees here there and everywhere

You might try using a wedge. The old idea before twisting.
A door wedge works. (Very cheap to try.)
Smoke/mist the bees down (waiting helps if misting). Put wedge on one side, lift box onto wedge and opposite side. Resmoke the gap and withdraw the wedge.
Its a bit slow, but it does reduce the number of squashed martyrs.


I've not had any damage to my Payne polys either from my hive tool or prop being stronger than the plastic's cohesion.
But I don't like the sharp ('cracking') noise when the prop gives way as I open up. Bees don't like it - which is why I don't like it. Time to buy a big jar of Vaseline …

 

[Ely]

thanks for the advice

 

[Headnavigator]

Tried this to no avail. Just to many bees here there and everywhere

Just the info I need too, have cedar hives but started P's Poly this year as well and am hating opening up because I cannot close without murdering bees, no matter what I do. Have no probs with cedar, but the poly beats me - and the bees, despite angles, wedges and all my tricks. Tried the clear plastic crown board (which I thought might help) but it does nothing to ease it and crushes bees against the frame tops also. If it's a good sized colony they just pour out and there's no stopping them.
I shall try to lightly frame a plastic crown board this next w/e with one bee space and see if that helps, guess I shall need to do the same with the plastic QE, but it then makes the stack look tatty with gaps between the boxes.
This is the only drawback I have found so far with poly, the bees thrive in it and a May split just motored to full size plus two supers within weeks, fastest I've ever seen, so I'm reluctant to give up on it.
Thanks for the vaseline and water spray tips, will try them out too and see what works. Meanwhile any more ideas I for one will be grateful.