Fully braced brood

[FlySwat]

Thanks for a wonderful forum. I am a new beekeeper and am learning lots.

And now I need some advice.

I have inherited a hive, BN brood + 1 Super, that is fully braced (think concrete). I have separated it and inserted another super. I can cut the super apart when I remove it.

But how do I get into the brood to inspect? The hive tool breaks the frames.

Should I place another brood box underneath and hope they move down into it?

I suspect the queen is not marked.

 

[Anduril]

Are you using the hive tool on the lugs of the first frame?
That will break the lugs.
Split them apart using the hive tool on the frame sides and then lever up from the bottom of the top bar, otherwise after splitting the frames apart then lever up from the lugs for the first one, then split each frame apart and they should move easily.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

It's a warree - never intended for inspection or proactive beekeeping

 

[Boston Bees]

It's a warree - never intended for inspection or proactive beekeeping

I have inherited a hive, BN brood + 1 Super

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Are you using the hive tool on the lugs of the first frame?

Good point - are you using a 'J' tool? it was never meant as a pry bar for lifting frames out by the lugs
I would bite the bullet, sacrifice the first frame and remove it in pieces if needs be then lever the next frame over into the gap to release it.

 

[FlySwat]

It's a British national and the frames are solid. Concrete. Braced frames to frame. I had to dig out the queen excluder...

 

[FlySwat]

Do I need a different tool then... Thought of tipping it over and running a knife up the side.... But concerned for the queen?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Do I need a different tool then

no - no frame was designed to be wrenched out in this way, as I said, I think you have to sacrifice one frame to make room to lever the rest sideways, tidy up then make sure the hive doesn't get into the same mess again

 

[FlySwat]

Gotcha....

But that is going to result in almost every frame being ripped apart. I was sort of hoping to get the bees to move..

 

[JamezF]

I had a similar problem a while back, possibly as bad as yours. One of the suggestions made to me was to use a couple of blocks of wood placed under the sidebars of one of the end frames on a firm surface and then push down on the box to try to push the frame upwards. You may also need to cut some of the brace comb though. A hacksaw blade was the recommendation for that.

My original thread is here:

In need of a cunning plan

James

 

[FlySwat]

I am defo in need of a cunning plan.

They have this year requeened, my main concern is not to lose her in the process.

There is of course the option "do nothing"

 

[blackcloud]

Can you not put another box on top,then qx once queen is in there.Migrate them slowly out.Takes an age but less fatality

 

[Swarm]

Gotcha....

But that is going to result in almost every frame being ripped apart. I was sort of hoping to get the bees to move..

Are they stuck to the sides of the hive or is there a lot of brace between comb faces? Use Anduril's advice of how to remove the first, then attempt to split each frame by levering it away from the rest before lifting it, use the top bar for this. A long knife to cut through brace might be a good idea.
Good luck.

 

[ericbeaumont]

put another box on top

This is the least work for best outcome.

If the combs are old and glued then best dismantled when bees are out of it.

Once comb is drawn in the new top box and she's laying up there, remove it (use no smoke, or if needed, smoke the entrance to drive her up) slap on a QX, then the new box and wait 24 days.

Once all brood has emerged remove the bottom box, put the new one on the floor and the old one back on above a clearer board.

Bees will bleed down over 48 hrs and the top box can be removed and emptied on your kitchen table.

Be sure to check the brood pattern, and especially advanced open brood for EFB.

 

[blackcloud]

[QUOTE="ericbeaumont, post: 827364, member: .... the top box can be removed and emptied on your kitchen table


[/QUOTE]

Or front room carpet

 

[Erichalfbee]

If you are going to put a box on top close the bottom entrance and make one under the new brood box, preferably above and below the QX otherwise the bottom box will get full of pollen.

 

[blackcloud]

It's already scrap wax Dani
Waxmoth bait.

If patience allows let any remaining brood work through over the next month and having a spare egg will save the day if you damage Q with all the upheaval.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

It's already scrap wax Dani
Waxmoth bait.

yes, but the pollen is valuable and with an upper entrance they will store it above and not in the lower 'gash' box

 

[blackcloud]

Yes of course.
I was thinking he might be trying to reuse the frames which sound like they are only fit for the smoker.

 

[JamezF]

he might be trying to reuse the frames which sound like they are only fit for the smoker

That's not one I saw in the "what fuel do you use in your smoker" thread!

James