Oh to bee a Mead Maker

[Tremyfro]

That's interesting because some slow maturing wines ....as part of the process of maturation...they are transferred from own demijohn to another...to add some air and topping up with water...as you would when racking. Usually to the bottom of the neck. Mind you....my main wine producing years were 35 years ago...perhaps things are different now.
I am going to take a look at my mead tomorrow. I noticed that the fermentation has slowed down. I will check the sg...see where we are with it. Interesting to do a different wine. The only thing is...I have never tasted mead....so haven't a clue as to what would be a good one! Ha Ha....

 

[Arfermo]

That is OK, if you only ever rack once. CJJB certainly racks twice (see page 194 on Metheglin in revised edition,11th Impression, of 1984). Not all meads are the same.

You neatly sidestepped , or simply ignored, the question of excess air space in the vessel. I presume, therefore you cannot answer the question without the need to withdraw from your previous position.

Try again, just answer the question: Precisely what level of air space do you consider fully safe from oxidation risk?

I have not been seriously making wine for so very long, although I did make some about 35years ago, so I should bow to you superiority, but you seem not to want to answer the simple question posed. I feel you have lost your claimed superiority if not willing to answer rationally.

I might refer you to the instructions on many of the wine kits, on the market these days, where racking from the gross lees is recommended, but not made compulsory and topping up, to achieve minimum air space, is specifically listed in the instructions. Beaverdale, the former and winexpert (I think) the latter. Sadlers reserves both rack off the gross lees part way through the ferment and particularlyand very specifically warn of any air inclusion and oxidation degradation risk in their instructions. And yes, I know some kits specifically instruct to leave the lees and stir it up as part of the fining process

While transfer from the gross lees part way through the main fermentation will not be likely to incur oxidation spoilage (the yeast will metabolise aerobically for a short time to mop it up), I believe like nearly all, oxygen is a major spoiler of wine.

So back to the question: How much air space can be left above wine (icluding mead) while being fully safe from oxidation in a demijohn?

Too busy to answer just now as subject is quite extensive and needs due care in my response considering how prickly and sensitive you seem to be when in a minor dispute with sarcasm and semantics thrown in - will do so when I have spare time.

 

[Ely]

That's interesting because some slow maturing wines ....as part of the process of maturation...they are transferred from own demijohn to another...to add some air and topping up with water...as you would when racking. Usually to the bottom of the neck. Mind you....my main wine producing years were 35 years ago...perhaps things are different now.
I am going to take a look at my mead tomorrow. I noticed that the fermentation has slowed down. I will check the sg...see where we are with it. Interesting to do a different wine. The only thing is...I have never tasted mead....so haven't a clue as to what would be a good one! Ha Ha....

If you sip it and it's right for you then job well done!!

 

[Tremyfro]

Had a look at the mead. Pale milky lemon colour. SG was 990. Tasted a bit fizzy and a little sweeter than I would thought it might be...but not a sweet wine. A good flavour. Also, quite strong in alcohol. However, racked it off and will allow to continue to ferment at a slow rate until it clears.
The Pinot Grigio has stopped fermenting and has a week or so to clear before I rack into jars. The elderflower is a strong colour and has also stopped fermenting...so I racked that and it will hopefully clear in the next week...then bottling. Had a little nip of the honey brandy whilst surrounded by the alcoholic beverages...totally yummy!

 

[Ely]

Bottled mine today. Sampled what was left. Hic..it's pretty...hic...nice...hic

 

[bontbee]

as an aside, can anyone specify if a mead made with elderflower is a melomel or a metheglin, please? It tastes rather nice, but I don't know which class to enter it in, ta

 

[Tom Bick]

Its a Melomel bontbee

 

[bontbee]

Thanks Tom. Different sources have suggested it's both!!

 

[Tremyfro]

as an aside, can anyone specify if a mead made with elderflower is a melomel or a metheglin, please? It tastes rather nice, but I don't know which class to enter it in, ta

A melomel is made with the addition of a fruit juice to 'stretch' the honey. A metheglin ( comes from the Welsh for medicine) has the addition of herbs and spices. They used to add large quantities of herbs but these days usually they are added for flavour rather than for medicinal uses. Your Elderflower/honey wine would be a metheglin.
This is quoted from Bryan Acton and Peter Duncan book ...Making Mead....page 50.
They say that all the valued herbs, of the time, were used...cloves,nutmeg,elderflowers,cowslips,rosemary and ginger.

 

[bontbee]

see what I mean?

 

[Tremyfro]

Bottled mine today. Sampled what was left. Hic..it's pretty...hic...nice...hic

Ha Ha ....a little savouring of the efforts of your labour. Mine still needs to clear...will be a while yet.

 

[Arfermo]

RAB,
At #20 you said “You neatly sidestepped, or simply ignored, the question of excess air space in the vessel. I presume, therefore you cannot answer the question without the need to withdraw from your previous position. Try again, just answer the question: Precisely what level of air space do you consider fully safe from oxidation risk?” and also “So back to the question: How much air space can be left above wine (icluding mead) while being fully safe from oxidation in a demijohn?”
My answer is that at the bottling stage ie shaken, sulphited, settled, etc etc of a nominal gallon in a demijohn the air space does not need to be topped up to stop oxidation – that aspect is usually handled quite well by the sulphite, but if left in the demijohn for an extended period part of another crushed Campden tablet might be advisable to ensure the wine remains in good nick, though sulphiting should not be overdone for obvious reasons.
At #13 the questioner asked “I’m making mead and I understand that when it is racked from one demijohn to another, the resulting air gap has to be filled. What do I use?” Your response at #14 was “Boiled (and cooled) water is idiot proof. Cold water from the rising main should be good enough”. In my book such dilution would spoil the balance and body as well as the alcohol proportion in an otherwise perfectly good wine. A competent wine judge would discard it in a competition. A very strange recommendation?

Now can we please leave it there and agree to disagree.

 

[oliver90owner]

Oh dear, Imissed this one while away.

No mention of whether fermentation had ceased or whether other chemical additions were anticipated.

Naturally fermented and aged wines and meads certainly do not need extra chemicals adding to keep them in tip-top condition. In fact it seems that some forum members may not be able to tolerate sulphites in their wine.

I most certainly would not add unnecessary chemicals to my mead. Indeed, I and many others would not be 'bottling' immediately after racking, and I don't want anything removed from the wine by finings, either (a well reported downside for those making the better wines), if if can be avoided.

Now, just because most supermarket wines are laced with sulphites does not mean that everybody should follow suit.

My resonse also included the much better alternative of filling with a similar wine fromanother batch, maybe. A small dilution with water might make little odds to the body and/or balance of the wine if the odd few percent extra ingredients were installed up-front, or the recipe was fermented at a slightly reduced volume in the first place. Lots of ways which make little or no difference to the finished product. After all, wine is likely around 85% water anyway.

Yeah, we can disagree but you still did not answer my simple question posed at post #20

.

 

[Tremyfro]

I think my mead is still on a slow fermentation. It is a little clearer this week! Is this within normal boundaries for mead?

 

[Arfermo]

Oh dear, Imissed this one while away.

No mention of whether fermentation had ceased or whether other chemical additions were anticipated.

Naturally fermented and aged wines and meads certainly do not need extra chemicals adding to keep them in tip-top condition. In fact it seems that some forum members may not be able to tolerate sulphites in their wine.

I most certainly would not add unnecessary chemicals to my mead. Indeed, I and many others would not be 'bottling' immediately after racking, and I don't want anything removed from the wine by finings, either (a well reported downside for those making the better wines), if if can be avoided.

Now, just because most supermarket wines are laced with sulphites does not mean that everybody should follow suit.

My resonse also included the much better alternative of filling with a similar wine fromanother batch, maybe. A small dilution with water might make little odds to the body and/or balance of the wine if the odd few percent extra ingredients were installed up-front, or the recipe was fermented at a slightly reduced volume in the first place. Lots of ways which make little or no difference to the finished product. After all, wine is likely around 85% water anyway.

Yeah, we can disagree but you still did not answer my simple question posed at post #20
.

I am not going to respond to any more of your unpleasant sarcasm and other tripe on this thread except to say that you should read and thoroughly digest page 18 of your favourite author CJJ Berry's book (1996 edition) re sulphite at the end of fermentation and racking - "to stabilise wine completely 2 - 3 tablets all per gallon". Bunging water in to top the demijohn up to fill the void is definitely your most stupid suggestion as I indicated above. Finis over and out. Stick to beekeeping as there you do often offer some worthwhile comment.

 

[oliver90owner]

Thanks. I think I will follow the advice of the major wine kit suppliers on this issue. In fact there is a thread over on the wines at home forum where some instructions from the net say:

''It is vital that you fill your carboys to within an inch or so of the bottom of the airlock stopper.: This prevents your wine from oxidizing and.....''

Not sure how many references you might need to bring you to the simple fact that there are other ways than yours when making wines. I keep an open mind to alternatives, rather than try to hide behind 'the only way to do it is...'

Nevermind, the poster will, by now, have found enough useful information of alternatives (particularly, perhaps, pertaining to additions of unnecessary chemical additives).

 

[Tremyfro]

Anyway.....back to my mead...is it doing OK or not? Still cloudy but a bit clearer...is this normal for mead? Or is everyone else's crystal clear already? By the way....we topped up the elderflower wine with water and it is now cleared....just waiting til I have enough bottles. The Pinot Grigio is mainly bottled and the rest in 2 demijohns. There was about half a bottle left over, which went into the fridge for a few days. It went down rather well with slow roasted pork belly and veg....great flavour and body but no after taste. The slight chemical taste which I detected on bottling had gone. Think this may be one for Xmas.

 

[protheroe]

i have 6 gallons of mead fermented down to 1020.i want to try some sparkling mead.should i ferment it to dry and clear then bottle and add sugar or rack it into bottles while still cloudy with the yeast still working and let it clear in the bottle.

 

[Tremyfro]

If it were me...not that my mead has cleared yet....but ever hopeful! I would wait until it was clear... Then bottle into champagne bottles with the appropriate added sugar for sparkle. Corking...not screw tops...for safety.
How long has your mead been working?

 

[protheroe]

started it 12 days ago at 1075.a lot weaker than i normally start it but i used a different yeast.i didnt make any last year but the year before i used champagne yeast.the trouble with champagne yeast it just keeps on fermenting any extra sugars you add making a very dry drink,great for strong brews but not so good for a weaker medium wine unless you opt for stabilisers.i will split this mead into demis for a dry and medium brew and bottle some for sparkling hopefully.