Oh to bee a Mead Maker

[Tremyfro]

I have started a gallon of mead.
I used 3 and a half pounds of our honey
juice of one lemon
2 teaspoons of nutrient
2 grams of champagne yeast started in a teaspoon of honey and some warm water.
Water to top up.
The honey was warmed and mixed with water, nutrient and lemon juice added. Yeast mix added. A really good shake. The sg was 1105 Prior to fermentation.
It is now fermenting well. It is a very pale lemon colour...our honey is a pale lemon colour too. I am hoping for a dry wine which ferments out to below 1000.
Does anyone do a second fermentation with added honey for dry wine or do you only do this for sweet wines? Also does anyone add tannin...and if so in what form? Tea?

 

[oliver90owner]

Some options as usual.

Adding further fermentables will increase the ABV, with a dry mead product until the alcohol tolerance of the yeast is reached. It will then stop any further fermentation and residual honey will them cause the sweetness - hence only adding small increments or it may finish sickly sweet.

Adding artificial sweeteners to a dry mead is another alternative (ugh!) And adding natural but unfermentable, sugars is another.

A secondary fermentation could also be used as a carbonation process to produce a dry sparkling wine.

If adding until the alcohol tolerance is reached, I would recommend not putting it in screw top bottles, nor the common lightweight wine bottles which will withstand very little pressure - just in case a further fermentation occurs. Not sure, but I expect stabilising with sulphite and sorbate would work. An alternative might be to add some spirit alcohol to increase the ABV to well beyond the tolerance of the yeast.

I hope it does not ferment too quickly and fountain from your airlock or simply overflow with froth! Meads can start like a rocket!

 

[Tremyfro]

Some options as usual.

Adding further fermentables will increase the ABV, with a dry mead product until the alcohol tolerance of the yeast is reached. It will then stop any further fermentation and residual honey will them cause the sweetness - hence only adding small increments or it may finish sickly sweet.

Adding artificial sweeteners to a dry mead is another alternative (ugh!) And adding natural but unfermentable, sugars is another.

A secondary fermentation could also be used as a carbonation process to produce a dry sparkling wine.

If adding until the alcohol tolerance is reached, I would recommend not putting it in screw top bottles, nor the common lightweight wine bottles which will withstand very little pressure - just in case a further fermentation occurs. Not sure, but I expect stabilising with sulphite and sorbate would work. An alternative might be to add some spirit alcohol to increase the ABV to well beyond the tolerance of the yeast.

I hope it does not ferment too quickly and fountain from your airlock or simply overflow with froth! Meads can start like a rocket!

I have some rather old honey / recipe/fermenting books. There is mention of furthering the alcohol content by adding a little extra honey...just wondered if anyone has tried this. The wine is going at a fairly steady rate of fermentation ATM. I have some Pinot Grigio that is fermenting like a steam engine! I have made wine in the past but usually hedgerow fruit or grape juice. I have never tried to do a sparking wine. Only......beer. Which turned out rather well...half the village staggered home! Perhaps if I can get enough bottles...I will try a sparkling mead. When I did the beer...I added a little sugar to each bottle at capping. No explosions. Have you tried this?

 

[Arfermo]

I always add 1 tsp of Bentonite at the start as this is about the best aid imho to clearing the wine without resorting to egg white, kielesol or other clearing agents that are usually only available with wine kits. It is also usual to mix all ingredients and then add some sulphite (2 crushed Campden tablets) to sterilise the must before adding the yeast 24 hrs later. You say you started at an SG of 1105. That equates to about 14.27% alcohol which is usually beyond the fermentation potential of most if not all general purposes yeasts. For this reason it is better, as o90o says, to start on a low SG so as not to overwhelm the yeast and add sweetness (sugar or honey) in small amounts as fermentation proceeds until the yeast will do no more bubbling. My recipe book for dry mead recommends using a Hock or Moselle yeast and various additives which include 1 tsp yeast nutrient, 1/4 tsp magnesium sulphate, 15mg Vitamin B1 (Benerva), 1 heaped tsp Tartaric acid and 1 ½ tsp Malic acid, but for a very dry mead use a champagne yeast. Mead needs to mature, so rack after 4 months and at 6 month intervals for best result. Hope this is helpful. Adding honey after the fermentation is complete only makes it a sweeter mead as the yeast has a fermentation limit. Sparkling mead is of course quite a different game and very tricky. Tried sparkling wine 20 or more years ago but too much hassle to try again.

 

[Tremyfro]

Thank you. I am going to see how this one proceeds. I was thinking of doing another if I have a spare demijohn. So will be able to use your information on the recipe. It will definitely be a very pale wine.

 

[Arfermo]

Forgot to say that I think you started with too much honey - the most any of my recipes say is 3lb. Because of this you may find it will not ferment out. The solution to this is often to dilute the must with water until the yeast is able to reduce the SG to an acceptable level below 1000. In doing this you might need to increase some of the additives too, assuming you have used any at all.

 

[Tremyfro]

The recipe I followed was an old recipe for a dry mead. The champagne yeast does have a higher tolerance level, so I'm hoping it will cope with it and ferment to dry. The only thing I didn't add was tannin. Can I add this in now or is it too late. As I had always used wine recipes that naturally had tannin in the fruit or added in them....I forgot that honey would need some. I thought I could add a couple of tablespoons of cold tea...what do you think?

 

[Arfermo]

If you have only just started the mead off then bunging in some tannin should work especially if you mix in some water to help it disperse. Tea not so effective I would think.

 

[Ely]

I hope it does not ferment too quickly and fountain from your airlock or simply overflow with froth! Meads can start like a rocket!

This is what happened to my first batch. Turned out alright though! Bottling and testing tomorrow!

 

[dclewis]

Can I chuck in an additional question?

I see o90o suggests using unfermentable sugar or chemical sweetners to sweeten a dry mead without increasing alcohol. I understand this and its also handy for use to sweeten a sparkling mead/cider etc.

The question is, if one has added a fermentation stopper (sorbate) can one then use more honey to increase sweetness (and honey flavours) without fear that fermentation will recommence?

 

[Arfermo]

Can I chuck in an additional question?

I see o90o suggests using unfermentable sugar or chemical sweetners to sweeten a dry mead without increasing alcohol. I understand this and its also handy for use to sweeten a sparkling mead/cider etc.

The question is, if one has added a fermentation stopper (sorbate) can one then use more honey to increase sweetness (and honey flavours) without fear that fermentation will recommence?

The normal method to stop further fermentation of a single gallon after a thorough shaking of the must is some sodium metabisulphate or a crushed Campden tablet or two (this merely stuns the yeast) and then 1 tsp potassium sorbate to kill it off. In all probability that will secure the wine from further fermentation - but you never can be certain imho. As with bees, funny/odd things do happen.

 

[oliver90owner]

Adding artificial sweeteners to a dry mead is another alternative (ugh!)

dcLewis,

'Suggesting' as an 'alternative' would certainly not be my 'recommendation'(as above, from my previous post). Adding more honey (especially if not heat-treated) can easily lead to further fermentation unless precautions are taken. I am not a fan of making chemical additions to my wines or meads, whether it be sulphite, sorbate or artificial sweeteners. If they are not needed, why add them?

RAB

 

[ebee]

I’m making mead and I understand that when it is racked from one demijohn to another, the resulting air gap has to be filled. What do I use?

 

[oliver90owner]

Boiled (and cooled) water is idiot proof. Cold water from the rising main should be good enough.

Better still, make multiples, or extra in a smaller fermenter, or top up with a previous similar batch.

Or one can add a little extra honey at the beginning, to allow for typical losses. Or space for adding more honey if it will finish dry and you want it sweet.

Most of my country wines start in a 25l plastic bucket or glass carboy and are then transferred to demijohns at some stage (usually the second racking).

Winemaking with natural ingredients, collected at different times will invariably mean variation in the final product of each batch, so does it really matter how you do it? Just decide on your plan and record it in your notes for future reference. If it works out well, do the same again - if not, maybe change. It is a bit like beekeeping - think and plan ahead, but not necessarily any best way to get the job done (but often a better way than your first attempt).

RAB

 

[Arfermo]

I’m making mead and I understand that when it is racked from one demijohn to another, the resulting air gap has to be filled. What do I use?

I don't know where that idea came from but have never heard of it in 37 years of winemaking and latterly as Competition Secretary in the Wine Circle I belong to. Wrong imho. All you need to do is ensure the yeast is dead and that the air gap has the benefit of what a Campden tablet (sodium metabisulphate)provides. Olive90owner above says he doesn't use such sterilising additives (or potassium sorbate). Bully for him but his view is very unusual but that is his risk and not to be followed unless you are absolutely certain you know for certain what might be the likely consequences. Apart from that, I respect Olive90owners advice on all beekeeping matters - but not this one.

 

[oliver90owner]

There lies a difference in thinking, Arfermo.

I do use metabisulphite where necessary, sometimes finings are necessary, but on this issue of oxygen, the simple way around avoiding any potential oxidation is to exclude it! Fill the vessel with liquid!
An alternative way is to add sulpite, which may mean stunning the yeast, or even virtually killing it off. Not a good ploy, part way through a fermentation such as this example.

Any chemist and many winemakers know that sulphite is a reducing agent and will easily react with oxygen, before that oxygen can cause spoilage in the wine. Beer fermenters take even more precautions to avoid spoilage by oxidation.

Some of my wines are sulphited and sorbated. What I said, I think, was 'I am not a fan of adding unecessary chemicals' and went on to say 'why use them IF not needed'. Just a tad different from your apprehension of my carefully worded post.

There are, of course, some who are allergic to sulphite in their foods and beverages. I am not, but those who drink my wines may be.... So I simply avoid it if possible.

It would seem tha Arfermo has never needed to read CJJ Berry 'First steps in Winemaking'. It is on page 56 of the 11th impression (1984) but first publihed in 1960. Bully for arfermo that he has never heard of it in 35years! CJJB was a very well respected wine maker of that era and his book remains popular even
today. Well worth a read and can be downloaded free on the net, I believe (possibly not andriod users).

RAB

 

[Arfermo]

My response was based upon the specific question by ebee above re "racking". That means, in my language anyway, that fermentation had virtually if not completely ceased and the intention was to proceed to getting the mead to the stage of being drinkable. Have I missed something? Don't think so but always possible in my dotage.

 

[oliver90owner]

In my book, racking off the gross lees is a good idea whether a wine or mead. That means racking more than once, which will entail some loss of volume at each racking. I avoid oxidation in two ways.

Firstly, by syphoning carefully, not spraying/splashing the liquid in the air, and keeping the end of the syphon tube below the liquid level in the receiving vessel.

Secondly, by excluding as much air in the receiving vessel as practicable by filling the vessel as full as possible with liquid.

Maybe I am too fussy with my wines, but I always say that if a job is worth doing it is worth doing properly. So I take all reasonable precautions.

I am confident you would not advocate making mead only to halfway, or less, in a demijohn and racking to another similar vessel? Question then arises : at what level would you consider fully safe from oxidation risk?

When I extrapolate from that I come the logical conclusion of 'fill it full'. QED?

 

[Arfermo]

That means racking more than once, which will entail some loss of volume at each racking. QUOTE]

I have never, ever racked more than once and I always make wine/mead in single or 5 gallon quantities so the question of topping up does not ever arise - other than when making sparkling wine champagne style (degorgement and all that). I'm amazed you find it necessary to do otherwise - but then you are obviously the only real expert in everything of value on this forum unlike we plebs. You will have to excuse my sarcasm but I consider you deserve it. Can we please leave it there as this correspondence has become very unedifying?

 

[oliver90owner]

That is OK, if you only ever rack once. CJJB certainly racks twice (see page 194 on Metheglin in revised edition,11th Impression, of 1984). Not all meads are the same.

You neatly sidestepped , or simply ignored, the question of excess air space in the vessel. I presume, therefore you cannot answer the question without the need to withdraw from your previous position.

Try again, just answer the question: Precisely what level of air space do you consider fully safe from oxidation risk?

I have not been seriously making wine for so very long, although I did make some about 35years ago, so I should bow to you superiority, but you seem not to want to answer the simple question posed. I feel you have lost your claimed superiority if not willing to answer rationally.

I might refer you to the instructions on many of the wine kits, on the market these days, where racking from the gross lees is recommended, but not made compulsory and topping up, to achieve minimum air space, is specifically listed in the instructions. Beaverdale, the former and winexpert (I think) the latter. Sadlers reserves both rack off the gross lees part way through the ferment and particularlyand very specifically warn of any air inclusion and oxidation degradation risk in their instructions. And yes, I know some kits specifically instruct to leave the lees and stir it up as part of the fining process

While transfer from the gross lees part way through the main fermentation will not be likely to incur oxidation spoilage (the yeast will metabolise aerobically for a short time to mop it up), I believe like nearly all, oxygen is a major spoiler of wine.

So back to the question: How much air space can be left above wine (icluding mead) while being fully safe from oxidation in a demijohn?