Making a huge increase in numbers?

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Poly Hive

Queen Bee
Joined
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Location
Scottish Borders
Hive Type
National
Number of Hives
12 and 18 Nucs
I was asked last night if it was possible to increase from 20 to 100 stocks in a season. Not nucs mind but good strong stocks ready to successfully over winter?

PH
 
I was asked last night if it was possible to increase from 20 to 100 stocks in a season. Not nucs mind but good strong stocks ready to successfully over winter?

PH
Yes….and if you have time/equipment I’d suggest it’s not hard. I also think nucs or colonies for wintering are fine, nucs are more than capable of surviving.
 
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How would you proceed Ian? The person is in the Manchester area and up in my locale I wouldn't even consider it.

By stocks CGF I mean good colonies not nucs as I said.

PH
 
How would you proceed Ian? The person is in the Manchester area and up in my locale I wouldn't even consider it.

By stocks CGF I mean good colonies not nucs as I said.

PH
I know RP often gets a hard press here but his method of colony increase DOES work I was helping him back in 2018 in the experiment described in the attached PDF. Producing up to 10 nucs from one colony should be possible (although hard work) Any that are not full colonies by the end of the season could be united,
http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/rogerpattersonmethod.pdf
 
Yes he mentioned that method though TBH I haven't looked at it yet. What works in the deep south is something I'm wary of for up here for obvious reasons as our season is a good month shorter. The person also mentioned Michael Palmer and super colonies. Now I have a vague recollection of reading about this many years ago in the American press and the colony size discussed seemed incredible to me used as I was to single BB working with black bees.

Anyway my advice? Contact the BFA and have a serious discussion with a competent BF. He seemed averse to moving bees for a start as "none of the beekeepers I know do that." I asked if said people were bee farmers but didn't get an answer.

PH
 
I was asked last night if it was possible to increase from 20 to 100 stocks in a season. Not nucs mind but good strong stocks ready to successfully over winter?

PH
It would help if the 20 stocks were really strong to start with, which it is possible they could be (a random 20 of my stock wouldn't be), and I suppose getting in a bunch of autumn mated queens ready to go in spring would be great too.
 
I’d start by ordering some early queens. In my area I can split a reasonable colony into 3x5 frame nucs mid to late April comfortably. If left alone these develop into good honey producing units for end of June/July. For example your 60 splits realistically give you 50 colony’s. I’d suggest at this stage say late June they’d easily split in half or 3 again. How you source/produce queens is up to you.
I’d also suggest that these splits are then capable of being split again aug/sept, off the back of some heather and decent ivy flow. I’d suggest keeping all equipment standard no nucs just deep boxes/frames.
In my area with brought in queens this is more than doable, if I was raising my own I’d make the maximum smaller three frame nucs/mating from the first splits and let them develop with the addition of cells.
 
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Yes he mentioned that method though TBH I haven't looked at it yet. What works in the deep south is something I'm wary of for up here for obvious reasons as our season is a good month shorter. The person also mentioned Michael Palmer and super colonies. Now I have a vague recollection of reading about this many years ago in the American press and the colony size discussed seemed incredible to me used as I was to single BB working with black bees.

Anyway my advice? Contact the BFA and have a serious discussion with a competent BF. He seemed averse to moving bees for a start as "none of the beekeepers I know do that." I asked if said people were bee farmers but didn't get an answer.

PH
I would suggest your man contacts RP direct ([email protected]) and has a chat with him. Roger is extremely practical and lectures throughout the UK so has a pretty good idea of what would be manageable in an area. Roger raises his own queens for this exercise but as Ian suggests above this may not be easy with the quantity required for this project.
 
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I expanded from 24 to 96 in 2018. I'd have to check the dates exactly but I bought in a batch of queens the end of June and another set in August.
The summer was exceptionally good which obviously helped build up some monster colonies which I stripped back by 6 frames max (14*12).
I wouldn't do it again, instead I'd save up the money and buy packages.
 
I think pointing him towards the BFA is the sounder idea than BIBBA, he has enough on his plate I think without that layer added.

PH
As Rolande hinted, best thing to do would be to point him in the direction of good equipment you'd like for yourself then wait for it to go tits up
 
I was asked last night if it was possible to increase from 20 to 100 stocks in a season. Not nucs mind but good strong stocks ready to successfully over winter?

PH
It is probably possible with bought in queens but 60 be more realistic.
The person who has 20 hives might be better off splitting into 40 or 50 and see how they get on managing 50 before thinking about jumping into 100
 
Hopefully, they have started building the kit already.
Shouldn't be a ridiculous task if they buy queens in.
 
Aim for 120+, or so, and unite the surplus in the autumn. Not much honey crop, if any, to be taken, so loads of feed can be provided all summer, as necessary, to keep the colonies expanding.

Feed and bought-in queens might be on a par, in cost, with packages. Depends on the season, I suppose.

My reply is: quite easily possible, but expensive, and needs a plan to follow from square one.

Would still likely need extra nucs, anyway, to take through the winter, to replace dud colonies over the winter period.

Several years ago, William (some will remember him) expanded at a great rate but failed miserably (due to poor standards, presumably) when disease got into his stocks. That was despite his mother setying him up, I believe.

Some beekeepers may never become proper/proficient beekeepers.

Manchester is probably as far north as sensible for this rate of expansion. I expect ITLD would manage far greater expansion - but not from his current stocks only. He would import a few pallets of package bees and be done with it, I expect.
 
Several years ago, William (some will remember him) expanded at a great rate but failed miserably (due to poor standards, presumably) when disease got into his stocks. That was despite his mother setying him up, I believe.

Didn't he end up in court over some shooting incident?
He runs a posh restaurant now
 

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