Hive behaving strangely

[Abbee]

Hi all
We always over-winter 4 hives and then in the summer, through splits and swarms, we have 8, then unite hives back to 4 in late autumn. We keep the 4 best tempered and best laying queens/hives.

Since we began beekeeping 6 years ago we have always had calm and non aggressive bees. Very lucky in that sense. All the queens are descendants from our first queen.
But for some reason we suddenly have a really bad tempered hive. New queen this summer. Well maybe its normal to some people but very unusual for us. We haven't actually been stung but they are scary and all over us when we inspect. I have to leave hubby to it because I'm very allergic. So of course we're not going to keep this queen.

The question is: if we remove the queen and unite this colony with another hive, how likely is it that the host hive will end up the same way?

 

[Erichalfbee]

from what you say the colony has suddenly become aggressive?
Sounds like there is something going on you have to investigate, rather than the queen’s genes/ mating
Is the queen still there?
Are they low on food?
Are you treating for varroa and with what?
A little more history on the colony would be useful.

If they have always been tetchy and getting worse as they grow in size then you have little to worry about uniting them with a gentle colony

 

[Ian123]

By new queen am guessing she’s self raised/swarm. Simply a case of being selective and doing as you’ve previously done, the old bees will eventually croak once united and will have no effect on the hive they are united to. With any open matings you need to be selective and it sounds like you’ve done well so far. If others start getting ratty over time then maybe some new blood is required.

 

[Finman]

It is not rare that a hive turns evil, when it changes the queen.

.

 

[Abbee]

This is unbelievable !
We removed the queen 1.5 weeks ago in order to unite with another hive and at the weekend removed all the CQCs. They were all over us but no stings.

Hubby went in today to put some pollen feed to prepare to unite tomorrow and the minute he lifted the lid off he was attacked by hundreds of bees!!. He was stung absolutely everywhere, even with his suit on. They even somehow got into his hatnet!!!!!
They attacked our chickens and also our cat who was quite a distance away.
It was like something from a horror film! I could only watch from indoors due to my allergy.
He managed to put the crown board and lid back on during the attack!

As to why. There is nothing we did with the hive that was different to a sister hive next to it. Both May queens split from the same hive on the same day, both not found at the same inspection. Both had similar stores. Both good amount of brood. Then both had replacement queens at roughly same time. The other hive is lovely. In fact all our other hives are so placid we only use smoke when we have finished inspections to help not crush them when reassembling.
This is madness. Enough to put you off.

Well, what now is the question?? Surely it should not be united. ? But what do you do with it?

 

[Repwoc]

Get a new queen.

https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=45543

Only one left yesterday, so be quick!

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

The colony has turned aggressive because you made it queen less, uniting it with another should sort it.
Even better would have been to unite it immediately you killed the old queen

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[Swarm]

The colony has turned aggressive because you made it queen less, uniting it with another should sort it.
Even better would have been to unite it immediately you killed the old queen

Sent from my SM-A600FN using Tapatalk

Maybe some different genes in the air this year? It only takes one. It's no different to what you've done before though, cull your worst, keep your best.
This one is by far the worst so kill queen and unite straight away.
Keep an eye on behaviour next year, if you get more rogue queens you would be better off buying some good queens and see how it goes from there.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Agree two
Unite ASAP
Best done when you killed the queen but do it tonight

 

[Abbee]

Agree two
Unite ASAP
Best done when you killed the queen but do it tonight

If you unite them straight away it takes a bit of time for them to break through the paper and unite so won't they have started building queen cells seeing as there were new eggs?

 

[Swarm]

They won't last long.

 

[enrico]

Be brave, suit up for a nuclear fall out and go for it. Remember you are going to lift the brood box if you put it on the paper so get the paper firm before you start. Make sure when you lift the brood box that you LEAVE THE FLOOR BEHIND and be quick and firm.
You will get one shot at it before they come out en masse so plan well for all eventualities.
Good luck
E

 

[For want of a better word]

They won't last long.

spray the newspaper ( Financial Times is best) with some essential oil... lavender or lemongrass are recommended... and make a few small slits in the paper.
Will merge in 4 hours or less.... job done!

 

[Swarm]

Smoke well under the OMF, they'll probably start pouring out the minute you crack the seal. Make sure everything is as it needs to be, take a deep breath and go for it.
Good luck.

 

[Erichalfbee]

If you unite them straight away it takes a bit of time for them to break through the paper and unite so won't they have started building queen cells seeing as there were new eggs?

No. They will me through the newspaper in hours

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

If you unite them straight away it takes a bit of time for them to break through the paper and unite so won't they have started building queen cells seeing as there were new eggs?

Nope, they're through in hours, the pheremone starts getting through to the Q- colony immediately through the slits in the newspaper, and it doesn't matter whether the Q- colony goes on top or underneath

 

[Beefriendly]

If you unite them straight away it takes a bit of time for them to break through the paper and unite so won't they have started building queen cells seeing as there were new eggs?

Use air freshener and no newspaper..... united in seconds.
Or use copious amounts of smoke per box and no newspaper....united in seconds.

 

[madasafish]

Use air freshener and no newspaper..... united in seconds.
Or use copious amounts of smoke per box and no newspaper....united in seconds.

As they appear really horrid, speed is of the essence as letting them out means you will kill lots in any re-uniting..

Personally I would plan every step in advance. what you are doing etc so you can do it asap without delays.. Faffing around with paper if it's wet or windy is going to slow you down a lot..

Air freshener is simplest .. By the time it takes to do it - 10 seconds, they will be together..


Or two to three billowing smokers..

 

[Abbee]

Thanks everyone.
Never had problems with uniting in the past but obviously want to get this crazy one done right.
Air freshener! Right going to do it as soon as it stops raining but just one more question.
Don't you do it at night when they are all back at the hive? Coz in the day the foragers will come back to an empty space?

 

[Ian123]

The last thing I would do is muck about with a bad tempered hive at night it’s just going to make things worse. Returning foragers normally mingle well I have only ever had a couple of times when they could well have been overwhelmed with numbers and list queens