Frame question

[Antipodes]

I'm wondering what these two different style of frames for a langstroth hive are called? I assume they have a "style" name.

The old frames like the one on the left don't have a scoop on the sides but the newer style on the right do. As a second question, does anyone know the purpose of the shape change?

Thanks.

 

[mjt68]

The new ones are Hoffman frames, the older ones Manley. They are both self-spacing. Bees will draw the Manley frames very thick but havign sidebars in contact with adjacent frames along their entire length means they get stuck together. The Hoffman frames avoid this but bees may not draw them quite as evenly. My impression is that Manley frames are a bit more of a niche product, typically where people are running for cut comb.

 

[madasafish]

The new ones are Hoffman frames, the older ones Manley. They are both self-spacing. Bees will draw the Manley frames very thick but havign sidebars in contact with adjacent frames along their entire length means they get stuck together. The Hoffman frames avoid this but bees may not draw them quite as evenly. My impression is that Manley frames are a bit more of a niche product, typically where people are running for cut comb.

I have some Manley frames in supers. They are a pia: they stick together a lot..
Serious error on my part to buy them.

 

[Vortex]

I have some Manley frames in supers. .

Hoffmans in the brood box (or brood and a half) and Manleys in the super, although a standard Lang will only take 9 leaving a space (or 8 Manley plus 2 Hoffman ).
The reason for using Manleys in a super is that you can then stand it on its side without all the frames flopping about and there is more "comb" space so you get more honey and less "fill".

 

[eltalia]

I'm wondering what these two different style of frames for a langstroth hive are called? I assume they have a "style" name.
The old frames like the one on the left don't have a scoop on the sides but the newer style on the right do. As a second question, does anyone know the purpose of the shape change?
Thanks.

Must be a Tassie thing as I was of the belief the frames without beespace built in
disappeared long ago off suppliers shelves, like more than 30years.
Also for what it is worth..?.. commonly it is the full depth frame that is referred to
in Aussie as "langstroth" making those frames shown ideals/manley/wsp or of late,
"mediums". Important aspect to mention when talking problems around stack configs.
More popular as supers they are rarely used here as brood boxes, at least by those
who know.

Bill

 

[Madge]

Must be a Tassie thing as I was of the belief the frames without beespace built in
disappeared long ago off suppliers shelves, like more than 30years.
Also for what it is worth..?.. commonly it is the full depth frame that is referred to
in Aussie as "langstroth" making those frames shown ideals/manley/wsp or of late,
"mediums". Important aspect to mention when talking problems around stack configs.
More popular as supers they are rarely used here as brood boxes, at least by those
who know.

Bill

Langstroth frames refer to frames that fit in a Langstroth box - whether deep or shallow.
Similarly, National, Smith, or Dadant frames - deep or shallow - refer to frames fitting those boxes.
The two versions of sidebars shown in the photo have a beespace built into them.

 

[eltalia]

eltalia didst post in part;
"Must be a Tassie thing as I was of the belief the frames without beespace built in
disappeared long ago off suppliers shelves, like more than 30years."

[...]
The two versions of sidebars shown in the photo have a beespace built into them.

Really..!!?.. must be a bagpipe moment then as I sure carnt see that.
What I see - attached.

Bill

 

[Madge]

Really..!!?.. must be a bagpipe moment then as I sure carnt see that.
What I see - attached.

Bill

You should look at the top bars - that's where you'll see the spacing.
From the side, at the top, the Manleys look just like Hoffmans. You can see that, can't you?

 

[Anduril]

https://shop.adelaidebeekeeping.com.au/manley-timber-frame-pk10
Interestingly I see you style of Manley frames are different to ours but only slightly.

 

[Antipodes]

Thanks ....so Manley and Hoffman, excellent! Interesting points.

I've never seen those Adelaide ones before. Almost a combination of the two styles. I hadn't thought that the "removed" wood was to allow bees space to move around, but actually thought it might have been to help prevent squashing/rolling of bees when the frame is slotted back in.

edit: I bought some old "Manley" frames in hives from an old codger. He made them himself. I bought other old hives recently from somewhere else, and again, they had the Manley style in them. I was under the impression that I couldn't now buy the older Manley style.

 

[Poly Hive]

I am at a loss here. Having run Manleys for many years I honestly cannot say they get stuck. They are excellent for cutcomb but also for extracting.

Something the hot air fans seem to forget/ignore/not aware of is:

By giving wax workers work to do it helps with swarming.

I suspect that the hot gun approach is a lot to do with not being able to cope with cappings and the honey in them.

I used to cut the Manleys right back to the bottom bars so almost a half if not more of the honey went into the cappings buckets. If one has a decent system to handle that it's not an issue.

PH

 

[eltalia]

You should look at the top bars - that's where you'll see the spacing.
From the side, at the top, the Manleys look just like Hoffmans. You can see that, can't you?

Really...!!..crikey maaate, fair dinkum fellla...
/rolls eyes/

Bill

 

[eltalia]

I am at a loss here. Having run Manleys for many years I honestly cannot say they get stuck. They are excellent for cutcomb but also for extracting.

The bees shouldn't overly propolise the 'seam' when you make sure they are jammed tight
toether.... well not so the usual leverage of a hive tool carn't break. The prime disadvantage
here is the missing beespace, likely down to bees clustered not then able to use that route
when clustered and the ventilation factor in summer and so curing of honey.

[...]
I suspect that the hot gun approach is a lot to do with not being able to cope with cappings and the honey in them.
I used to cut the Manleys right back to the bottom bars so almost a half if not more of the honey went into the cappings buckets. If one has a decent system to handle that it's not an issue.
PH

Pretty much... seen many struggling with those ancillary tasks in extraction.
Decanting honey is another.
Attached is our solution today for the bit we do these days. Back when the
barrel was simply drained o'night for the leavings to be fed back enmasse
the next day in open feeding, something n0t recommended today.

Bill