Separating Paynes poly (brood) boxes

I find the vaseline works great. I do it from new and only need to re apply on infrequent occasions. I frame all my crown boards with 2 strips across to stop the sag in the middle and enable a feeder hole. You get a bit of sticking but a gentle twist brings them off fine.
Always will be a problem on big colonies of bees to stop the crunch:-( The sides are just too thick. I never like to smoke but on occasion one needs to especially this time of year. Very happy with the Paynes so far but still feel they are a little soft. The new roofs are a LOT better

I have no problem with my Paynes hives but I run them TBS

I have found the best tool for poly hives is a paint scraper thin enough to slide in without damaging poly surface and broad enough for leverage to separate supers etc..

Ely said:

Thanks. So the idea is that they shouldn't like walking over the wet surface?

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Yes - they are not as quick to mass on the wet edges and a mist of water often works as well as smoke to put them down from the top bars.

TryingToLetThemBee said:

What happened to the idea of putting on boxes at an angle of rotation then gently turning them into place? You can smoke the four wedge-shaped gaps if you do that too.

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Even when you do this some will get squashed and when you rotate the boxes, some bees tend to get decapitated, even in the presence of smoke. I'm not talking a big number, but certainly more than when you are working with thinner walled hives.

Finman said:

You have wrong type tool, if it crushes poly.

I twist poly up from one corner and then another.
It gives a sound when propolis breaks.

I use knife.

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G'day Finman,

It is not actually the tool that is crushing the poly. I use the chisel end of a J tool to separate the boxes and always lever at two or three corners before twisting and lifting. I repeatedly find that when the box is lifted and I hear the sound of the propolis breaking, a piece of poly has pulled out of one of the boxes and remains stuck in propolis on the other box. Vaseline reduces this problem but I don't have the time to reapply a coating every time I check a hive nor do I check every box when I do an inspection. When I have set some of these particular poly supers on the hive roof when checking for queen cells, pieces of poly have even been stuck to the hive roof by the propolis. I will sort out this "damage" with wood filler during the winter.
I have some swienty boxes and have not had this problem with them..... (or with the wooden supers I have made!) Working experience will dictate how and where I spend money in the future.

Headnavigator said:

... started P's Poly this year as well and am hating opening up because I cannot close without murdering bees, no matter what I do. …. Tried the clear plastic crown board (which I thought might help) but it does nothing to ease it and crushes bees against the frame tops also. ...
I shall try to lightly frame a plastic crown board this next w/e with one bee space and see if that helps, guess I shall need to do the same with the plastic QE, but it then makes the stack look tatty with gaps between the boxes.
This is the only drawback I have found so far with poly, the bees thrive in it and a May split just motored to full size plus two supers within weeks, fastest I've ever seen, so I'm reluctant to give up on it.
... Meanwhile any more ideas I for one will be grateful.

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Ditch the supplied plastic QX and floppy coversheet. (Or at least put them aside - the coversheets are useful for bee-proofing stacks of supers awaiting extraction, for example.)

Invest in a decent framed rigid-wire QX. You won't go back to sheets sitting on the topbars. If the sight of the wood frame edge bothers you, paint it to match the hive.
Similarly a framed polycarbonate coverboard (ideally with no hole) is a lovely thing to have. I've recently tried making one from B&Q conservatory double-glazing polycarbonate sheet, glued & stapled to a simple frame made from 10mm thick by 16mm wide B&Q stripwood. Bees happily ignoring it. Transparent enough to see that the bees are indeed well up into the top super, but nothing like the HD view through Thornes polycarbonate 'quilt' (a term I'd bury.)

No problem with bees when putting these frames onto a thick-walled poly box. And the one bee you are particularly trying NOT to crush is going to be safely kept below the QX, after you have put it back on.
My only concern is when rebuilding a stack of supers, one by one because of their weight.
Smoking under each super before adding it to the stack does also help, a little.

Thanks Teemore and Itma. I vaselined the edges of the poly boxes in situ as I did an inspection this afternoon. The bees were not well pleased, it didn't occur to me that they might react badly to the vaseline. However reassembly with the aid of a water mist was a doddle and I don't think I squashed any. (Two got me while vaselining though!) You definitely have the answer for stacking poly boxes.
Yes, I get the point about the QE and the crown sheet/'quilt' provided. I do have some old framed rod QEs, I just resent having to use something other than those that came with the set-up. Don't think the bees need a crown board with a poly roof anyway, I've abandoned it and they seem to be fine without.

Some of the old beekeeping books contain pictures of beekeeping "kits" which include Vaseline and a 3/4" paintbrush to apply it. Must remember to try brush application of Vaseline onto poly supers tonight. Should have about 6 wet poly supers to go back onto hives tonight.

Great stuff - never even thought of applying Vaseline with a paint brush. Would have saved me a couple of stings!
Congrats on your 1,000th post, btw.

Headnavigator said:

m.
I shall try to lightly frame a plastic crown board this next w/e with one bee space and see if that helps, guess I shall need to do the same with the plastic QE, but it then makes the stack look tatty with gaps between the boxes.

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i used 6mm polycarbonate for my clear crownboard and cut strips about 6mm wide from the same sheet (I do have a bandsaw) and glued these with superglue to one side of the crownboard around the edges to create the bee space. It sits nicely on top of the hive and the roof (I have the new style roof) sits on top without a problem .. not squashed a bee with it yet as you can slide it on in a twisting way and you can see the bees and give them time to get out of the way ... works a treat.

I don't use a QE so that's something I will need to think about - can see what you mean about making the stack untidy - it probably needs a frame that matches the profiles of the boxes ... if Paynes are listening then perhaps they could give some thought to it ???

Headnavigator said:

Great stuff - never even thought of applying Vaseline with a paint brush. Would have saved me a couple of stings!
Congrats on your 1,000th post, btw.

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Ta! Hopefully some of those posts were helpful or informative to other forum users. Certainly when I have asked questions I have found the responses to be helpful to me, my bees and my beekeeping friends.

Too right, incredibly helpful and a good standard of banter, eh?

Finman said:

You have wrong type tool, if it crushes poly.

I twist poly up from one corner and then another.
It gives a sound when propolis breaks.

I use knife.

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To expand a little .
Twist the boxes in opposed directions about a vertical axis ( use your hip/bum against the lower box)

if the boxes dont release then

, Use the knife or a flat scraper or a thin flat hive tool. insert the tool flat into the joint and slide it all round.all 4 sides. Then twist the boxes as above and lift.

DONT LEVER the box off DONT TWIST the tool.

My MB hive with the lips tends to have few problems .. but it's in its first year of use...

Headnavigator said:

Too right, incredibly helpful and a good standard of banter, eh?

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Banter? Here? Must have missed that...