Winter and size of colony needed

[Luka22]

Hi,

As a beekeeper in our first year, we are now looking into what is needed for the winter, to bring our colonies through.

I have tried to read as much as I can about winter preparation, but I am wondering if there is anything like a rule that you can say, if you live f.e in SE England, than by end of September you would need x Frames of Food and x Frames with Bees covered.

Most of our colonies only got 2-3 Frames with Brood on it, but how many would be needed by when? All the Colonies cover a minimum of 5 Frames with Bees, is this what we should be looking at? Its really confusing. I am not so worried about filling up their Food Stores, I guess thats easy by feeding more, but I can't increase their size, besides combining. If I can, than I would prefer not to do so, but an indicator would be great. So, are we looking for Brood or the amount of Frames covered by Bees?

 

[Into the lions den]

Still early enough in the SE for colony development. Golden rule right now is do NOT overfeed as too much syrup can congest the brood area, restricting the number of young bees for overwintering. Feed them small amounts (like a litre, maybe two) on a weekly basis, as this stimulus keeps the queen going. If they congest a bit move one of the unused combs into the centre. You can continue this regime up until mid October, but NOT beyond due to the bees formatting themselves properly for winter by then.

When things turn cold and the bees cluster tight, five seams of bees today probably means three seams in the cold. This is inadequate for wintering except in very well insulated situations and with a young and vigorous queen. Thus you need to be encouraging maximum brood raising from now till the frosts set in.

 

[Luka22]

Thanks for your advice. The Queens are all from this year, so they are all young. We have started with some feeding about 3 weeks ago (about 1.5 l 1:1 once a week), the very small hives looked like they needed a bit of help in the hope they would draw some more comb and a week ago, we also gave to both stronger hives, because one had hardly any food left and the other one had just a new mated queen and we wanted to help them. The one with the new queen got actually a full super, so they did not touch the food at all and we removed it yesterday, the other one emptied 4.5 l and we refilled that yesterday.

Most of them got 1 drawn, empty Frame available, so hopefully thats enough to use, till they draw more. They don't seem to draw a lot, no idea why, that was also a reason, why we gave a 1:1 feed. (not sure if that does work)

What would you think, how many Frames of Bees would we than need in the end?

 

[Into the lions den]

The real answer is 'as many as you can get'. I would be seeking a minimum of 6 bars of bees to be sure. You are very much south and can probably get away with less as you have brood later than us and start up again earlier in spring. Provided you have no disease issues it is also in order to do a bit of equalising, moving the odd frame of sealed brood and stores from the big to the small. Its not generally considered good practice, but there are times and circumstances when its the lesser of two evils.

 

[Luka22]

Ok, 6 sounds achievable I would hope. Most cover 5, one of them 7 Frames, but as mentioned that is only looking at how many bees are around. Brood is far less (2-4 Frames), so I would think not much to juggle around between the hives.

With how many frames are other people going into the winter? How do you all make your decisions if a colony is strong enough?

 

[drex]

ITLD is dead on with his "as many as you can get answer", as one would expect from his experience, but he puts it so neatly.

You are doing OK though as you seem to be listening to your bees and what they are saying. - The colony with the full super did not touch the feed ( which I would not have offered) and so you removed it.

Feeding at this time of year is a balancing act, too much and the queen has no space in which to lay, too little and they may starve later.

I too am in Essex, and am not feeding yet. Good turnover of brood, with the queen relaying up any cells soon after the young emerge. I am fortunate as they are foraging like mad, and I doubt whether I will actually have to feed this year. I do have my Varroa treatment in. My priority now is to have as many healthy bees, in strong colonies ( have just combined two) going into winter as I can, with adequate stores

 

[Tdf]

you would be surprised how quick they can build up, got a tiny cast swarm about the size of a tennis ball a month ago, and now overflowing in a nuc

 

[Luka22]

Ours were all swarms as well, bought 2 colonies in April and it got out of control and we ended with 7, woould have been even 9, but 2 got lost. What a year.

I hope they still build up a bit more, but you are right, balancing seems to be the magic question. We were shocked to see that an actually strong hive suddenly had no food stored another hive with lots of bees suddenly lost there queen and the new one only hatched 2.5 weeks ago, mated alright and now got the first 2 frames with Larvae. So much happened in our first year, we don't want to do mistakes now and all the time we just ask ourself, do we have enough girls, to get through the winter.

But I now got some indicator. Bees covering 6 Frames minimum + 6 Frames of Food in the Super and another 6 in the Broodbox, if I read it right in the book about the food. I suppose if you got no super on, than it could also be 10 Brood Frames with Food.

 

[blackie]

got a swarm one month ago put into poly nuc fed like made inspected today full of stores 2 frames of brood with no room to lay what novice.took frame off stores of and put drawn out frame in middle to day please lean from my mistake .dont feed feed feed.