Why won't they use the Super?

[MuswellMetro]

Some queen excluders have the wrong spaces, so the bees can't get through them. Some imported ones are worse than useless, and there were some plastic ones sold by he big suppliers a couple of years that were no good.

agree, Bees do also come in different sizes, i had black bees that never when through any of the plastic type QX and an orange Queen that seemed unhindered by a wire QX

 

[drstitson]

a good idea is to have a piece of wood, an old entrance block perhaps, with various spaced castellation fixed to each side. that way you can space appropriately and move apart as comb drawn, without worrying about fixed castellations.

 

[mbc]

a good idea is to have a piece of wood, an old entrance block perhaps, with various spaced castellation fixed to each side. that way you can space appropriately and move apart as comb drawn, without worrying about fixed castellations.

I was born with a thumb of the right size, on its side for narrow spacing, flat for wide, and my eyes can see if it looks about right or not

 

[BeeFarmer]

Tomorrow I'll try the hair-dryer trick and some sugar water spray.

I had the same problem, they didn't touch the foundation at all so I very lightly warmed mine with the blow torch and removed the queen excluder for a few days. When I returned a few days later they were finally working on the foundation. It could have simply have been that they weren't quite ready but then again it could have been that they didn't like passing through the QE.

I know of one chap who removed the QE but then couldn't returned due to bad weather and ended up with brood in the super.

 

[oliver90owner]

ended up with brood in the super.

Absolutely no problem with that. Like as not they needed to be on a brood and something anyway?

Correction: Only a problem for the squeamish who cannot countenance taking honey from a brooded cell.

As an aside, what changed with the Q/E to make any difference? I don't see any change in your post. Either they will go through it or they won't. Or rather can or can't.

 

[charlievictorbravo]

Why would they do that when there’s perfectly good foundation ready to be drawn?

Your ten frames in an eleven frame box will not help, where the extra combs are concerned. Try getting foundation drawn with just nine or even eight and yo would likely get loads more extra comb drawn! The problem will likely be exacerbated if the foundation is stale or contains other waxes than that of bees (like cheap chinese imports)

Use eleven frames in an eleven frame box. They were designed for that. In fact, I often start with twelve and reduce as they draw out the comb.

OK - I've used a spare Super and reversed the castellated runner on it (see picture) and when it warms up a bit (currently 11.3 degrees with a 12 mph wind) I'll swap the boxes and put 11 frames into the Super and put the partially drawn frames in the middle.

I have some Lemongrass oil and I was wondering if a few drops of that on the top of the frames will encourage the girls into Super. Above the Super is a clear crown board with 50mm of Celotex in its eke and then a roof with a further 50mm of Celotex so the box should be warm enough. Any thoughts on the essential oil?

CVB

 

[oliver90owner]

Forget it.

 

[Margaret Elisabeth]

Dribble a little syrup down the frames in the super to get them interested. They may not realise it is there.

 

[Bosleeu]

OK - I've used a spare Super and reversed the castellated runner on it (see picture) and when it warms up a bit (currently 11.3 degrees with a 12 mph wind) I'll swap the boxes and put 11 frames into the Super and put the partially drawn frames in the middle.

I have some Lemongrass oil and I was wondering if a few drops of that on the top of the frames will encourage the girls into Super. Above the Super is a clear crown board with 50mm of Celotex in its eke and then a roof with a further 50mm of Celotex so the box should be warm enough. Any thoughts on the essential oil?

CVB

In my experience bees love lemongrass oil, they will take syrup more readily if it has a few drops of lemongrass in it, and it is a killer in a bait hive. Not sure if you are still persisting with the QE, but still think it's a good idea to remove it for a while. They tend to move up much quicker if there is no QE, without a doubt.

Dribbling some syrup as, suggested will also be helpful, and you can also rub a bit of honey and wax from the brood box onto the bottom of the top bars with your hivetool.

Hope they move up soon, it is great once they get going.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

 

[charlievictorbravo]

Wire QX Removed

I removed the wire Queen Excluder following advice on this forum and because of my doubts about the spacing of the wire bars. I've replaced it with a thin aluminium plate of that gives a large gap all the way round and has 6mm spacers under it to provide the top bee space. Why aluminium? - because it was the thinnest material I had available just over 1mm. The idea is based on the concept of the plywood QX in Dave Cushman’s website where it is suggested the queen does not venture to the far reaches of her domain so she will not go to the gaps round the edges of the box – that’s the theory anyway!

If it does not work, I’ll remove it and let them go commando for a few days.

I've also dribbled some weak sugar solution on the foundation while the Super was open and the empty frames are close together - twelve frames waiting to be drawn in the one super. My thoughts are that as they get drawn, I'll put them back in the Super with the ten castellation runners for the bees to work on and I'll have a couple of ready-drawn frames for the NEXT Super - now there's optimism!

CVB

 

[Bosleeu]

Crossing my fingers please keep us updated

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

 

[Nige.Coll]

I added 10 frame super of foundation to my hives.
They were slow to start drawing the comb out 3 weeks now and they have drawn the middle 4 or 5 frames out. I sprayed it with sugar syrup to try and encourage them.
We have had nice weather for a week and that is when the started to draw it out seriously.
They are filling it with nectar as they go and drawing it out as they need to.
Seem to be keeping 1 frame in front of their needs atm.

I will not be using a 10 frame super for foundation again as they have made brace comb at 90 degrees to the frames due to too much bee space.

 

[charlievictorbravo]

Update on Aluminium QX

The new QX seems to be ok in as much as the bees are now up in the Super in numbers and drawing the foundation with a vengeance plus I saw no sign of the queen up there - problem is, I could not find her in the brood box either!

Using Hoffman frames, I have 12 frames in the honey box and now that 3 or 4 in the middle are drawn, I'll remove a frame and spread the others out a bit - maybe by the end of the weekend I can get down to my target of 10 evenly spaced and drawn frames in the Super.

Now all I've got is find the Queen ....... I'm hopeful she's still there because the workers are flying out and bringing in pollen.

CVB

 

[itma]

Shuffle them by all means, but don't change the spacing until all are pretty much fully drawn at the original spacing!

Then, the easiest way to change spacing is to move them into a different box - fitted with 10-slot castellations. And put another 10 foundation frames in the box with rails (put the two spare, worst-drawn, frames in the middle of the 12-box this time.
You'll get differing advice as to whether the new box goes above the QX or above the first super (under- or over-supering). For foundation, its probably best to put it just above the QX, under the other super. Next year, hopefully having some drawn comb to use, you can try just putting that on the top of the pile.

Some beeks really love topbar end-spacers for setting different spacings. Horrible things!

 

[charlievictorbravo]

Shuffle them by all means, but don't change the spacing until all are pretty much fully drawn at the original spacing!

Then, the easiest way to change spacing is to move them into a different box - fitted with 10-slot castellations. And put another 10 foundation frames in the box with rails (put the two spare, worst-drawn, frames in the middle of the 12-box this time.
You'll get differing advice as to whether the new box goes above the QX or above the first super (under- or over-supering). For foundation, its probably best to put it just above the QX, under the other super. Next year, hopefully having some drawn comb to use, you can try just putting that on the top of the pile.

Some beeks really love topbar end-spacers for setting different spacings. Horrible things!

Thanks for the very pertinent advice. SWMBO was on the computer most of the day so I did not get to read your post until it started to get dark. We've had warm weather here today and the bees were flying and bringing in pollen, so I'm sure her majesty is in there. I removed the clear crown board and spread out the drawn frames to give a gap similar to a 10 frame castellation - which is what you said, above, that I should NOT do! B----r!

If there a warm break in the rain tomorrow, I'll shuffle the frames but keep them evenly spaced. In my defence, my thought was that if the bees started storing and sealing honey in the central drawn frames, those frames would be wide enough to not be out of place in the spacing of a 10 frame castellation, if you follow my drift.

Isn't this a fascinating and frustrating hobby!

CVB

 

[BeeJayBee]

I'll [...] keep [the frames] evenly spaced.

Space them when the box is in situ, otherwise they'll move when you move the box and you'll have to do it again! (been there, done that!)

 

[charlievictorbravo]

Quick Update

After a couple of days of wind and rain, this morning was warm and calm so I did an inspection. On the fourth frame of the brood box I found her majesty and lots of brood - up to 6/7 frames-worth. The aluminium QX appears to be working ok and there is nectar in the drawn cells of the central frames of the super but none of it is capped.

The next big decision for me is "at what stage do I put another super on and does it go on the top or underneath the first?" A month or so away perhaps but I like to be prepared!

The current set-up is (from top to bottom): 5mm thick hive cosy (that fully covered the 14x12 brood box and floor), clear crown board with integrated eke that contains 5cm thick celatex rigid insulation, super, brood box and floor with underfloor entrance. My initial thought was to only use the hive cosy during the winter months but I can see that it would help maintain the heat in the hive - even with a couple of supers on, he said hopefully, it will stop heat from the brood box from escaping through the walls and tops of the supers.

So, all in all, I'm a relatively happy bunny!

CVB

 

[susbees]

After a couple of days of wind and rain, this morning was warm and calm so I did an inspection. On the fourth frame of the brood box I found her majesty and lots of brood - up to 6/7 frames-worth. The aluminium QX appears to be working ok and there is nectar in the drawn cells of the central frames of the super but none of it is capped.

The next big decision for me is "at what stage do I put another super on and does it go on the top or underneath the first?" A month or so away perhaps but I like to be prepared!

CVB

6/7 frames of brood? Well that would explain why they didn't need the super. Add another when the first super is over half full of BEES (first one when there are 7 or 8 frames of BROOD). Under or over...under prevents trampling the first more than needed.

 

[charlievictorbravo]

6/7 frames of brood? Well that would explain why they didn't need the super. Add another when the first super is over half full of BEES (first one when there are 7 or 8 frames of BROOD). Under or over...under prevents trampling the first more than needed.

I take your point about there not being 7 or 8 frames of brood but, in my defence I would say that what wasn't brood was wall to wall stores. I had read on the forum about early preparations for swarming in some areas so I thought I'd give them some room to store nectar so that the Queen would have somewhere to lay eggs. They may not have done a lot in the Super but at least they have not swarmed.

When the time comes, I'll do as you suggest and put the empty Super immediately above the Brood Box and QX.

Thanks

CVB

 

[oliver90owner]

Next time - why not remove surplus stores and replace with empty comb, if you have it, or foundation?

Far simpler than a four page saga about a small colony with a large unwanted space to heat in a not-so-warm period. KISS principle in operation.

RAB