when does your responsibility for a Nuc you sold stop?

[Poly Hive]

I sold a nuc some weeks ago to one of my beginners and she has reported faithfully the progress so far and it has been pretty clear that one of the queens is not up to scratch.

I am supplying her with another queen tonight.

So people how long a time is one responsible for the failings of nature really? It was an over wintered nuc and was on four frames of brood when sold so in good condition. But they virtually have been going backwards since.

PH

 

[enrico]

I would say that if they had been going backwards since you sold them then it would be polite to change her but if she had been going great guns for a while and then gone backwards.... different answer!
E

 

[Murox]

Im with Enrico on that. But you asked about time - how long. I would suggest not very long. If we sell a puppy we give everyone a couple of weeks to have it checked by their own vet. If the vet finds it unfit for some reason we will refund no questions asked - its in the contract.(we have never had one returned) So in the case of a queen I think a full brood cycle (21 days ish) would be fair and longer would be generous and going the extra mile - which I think you are probably doing in this case and thats just good manners and probably good business sense too.

 

[madasafish]

Two inspections.. or 4 weeks .. whichever comes first..

(as a ham fisted amateur can easily maim/kill a queen in two inspections)

(except of course for notifiable diseases.)

 

[BMH]

Also depends if you installed the nuc into the hive and the time of year its sold.

I sell most of my nucs in correx travel nucs and buyer installs them into the hive.

It would be quite easy to squish or lose the queen on transfer. Not something I think I should be liable for.

If they find queen cells after 1 week after purchase, would you replace the queen?

It's never happened before but you never know



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[Hachi]

You could decide if the beek is relatively experienced then a warranty period longer than a new beek. When I've sold nucs to newbies I was sometimes convinced I'd sent my hard work to a certain and untimely death

 

[B+.]

how long a time is one responsible for the failings of nature really?

a contract is fulfilled upon exchange of "consideration" (i.e. something of value (e.g. a nuc) for something of value (e.g. money). Ownership transfers from one person to another so responsibility also transfers.
Anything beyond that is voluntary. Having said that, I usually try to help people as much as possible. Some will try to take advantage but, I prefer to think, most won't

 

[For want of a better word]

You could decide if the beek is relatively experienced then a warranty period longer than a new beek. When I've sold nucs to newbies I was sometimes convinced I'd sent my hard work to a certain and untimely death

I dread selling bees to new beekeepers..... especially the ones that have " done a course" and hence know it all!

I think most smaller scale breeders do give an extended warantee... but if you buy from one of the larger importers... the devil can take the hindmost if you ask for any compensation for their crap bees!!

Yeghes da

 

[BMH]

a contract is fulfilled upon exchange of "consideration" (i.e. something of value (e.g. a nuc) for something of value (e.g. money). Ownership transfers from one person to another so responsibility also transfers.

Anything beyond that is voluntary. Having said that, I usually try to help people as much as possible. Some will try to take advantage but, I prefer to think, most won't

I think people who are getting into beekeeping really arent the type to take advantage, I've never experienced it.

I offer to install bees in their hive if they are in a reasonable distance. In fact, I actively promote it. Takes me a bit longer but I can talk them through what they need to do for the first few weeks (if anything), point out the queen and just give general advice. Not that always take it.

I once sold an overwintered nuc in the last week of April.

I told them to feed until the brood box frames were nearly drawn and then to stop and at that point to add a super if the weather was fine. They rang me back in June and said they had swarmed. They had fed non stop for 6 weeks and hadn't added the super/s.

They bought another nuc!

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[eltalia]

Due regard to contract law around goods and chattels a living organism
is argueably exempt - despite the dead parrot outcome of MP times.

For bees in any configuration the answer is easy.
Responsibilty for the bees endures up until the first of brood emerges.
Responsibilty for due care lies with the purchaser, always.

Bill

 

[Bates]

I've been hoping this question would appear on the forum one day.

We sell a lot of Nucs and inevitably there are a few issues along the way, where maybe a Queen has gone missing in transit or between them being inspected & collection (or postage). This issues are few in comparison to how many we actually do and we are always quick to try to rectify any issues.

I have customers ranging from waiting months or even up to a whole year that come to us trying to get a freebee as a result of a winter loss or miss-management (due to bad swarm control etc). Whilst I am trying to keep a good reputation and genuinely feel bad if there has been an issue (and in most cases, I will offer to help) I am trying to earn a living and any margin made is potentially lost. This is not a hobby, this is what pays my mortgage and supports my family (solely).

Just in the past few days a customer collected 3 nucs around 3/4 weeks ago and has sent me images of one that has clearly starved. Given they are a new bee keeper they claimed to have fed but images clearly show bees heads in cells, lots dead on the floor with no stores on the frames. Everyone knows of the conditions the past few weeks with the June gap, complete lack of forage, cold & rain. But what do I do? Technically that Nuc left us, progressing well and would have thrived given it hadn't of been met with this miserable weather.

What would you do?

Daniel

 

[Beefriendly]

What would you do?

Daniel

I'd patiently explain what has happened and offer a 20% discount off his next nuc.....I'd be sure to emphasise that adding a feeder is not a guarantee that the bees will use it and is something that needs to be checked by the operator.
Lessons in beekeeping are hard learnt.
No way does he/she get a free replacement.

 

[enrico]

I would say that you would like to talk personally to their mentor and if they didn't have one I would suggest that one might be useful and like beefriendly offer a small discount off a replacement. The mentor would presumably give a second opinion.
E

 

[B+.]

What would you do?

"Upon completion of the contract the (new owner) is free to enjoy the rights and responsibilities of ownership."

I remember this well from year 1 Contract Law. It was drummed into us and I shall never forget it.
I understand the dilemma. You are basically a nice guy who wants his customers to be satisfied with the product/service you offer. Most reasonable people would feel as you do. However, the customer accepted ownership and they became his property. It's not for you to reimburse him for his ineptitude. If he hasn't learned that lesson by now, it's time that he did.

Put it this way, if I go into a shop and buy a bottle of my favourite tipple. I pay for it and leave. After leaving the premises, I drop the bottle and it breaks. Should the shop owner reimburse me for my clumsiness? No. It was my loss. The purchase was complete (and ownership was transferred) when I handed over the payment. If I wanted someone to reimburse me incase of potential breakages, I should have taken out insurance.

 

[Beefriendly]

B+ your simplistic view ignores the 30 (?) day money back if not satisfied....for any reason...except of course if you drop the bottle of hooch and it's YOUR fault it's broken
I think when it comes to livestock it's caveat emptor....

 

[B+.]

B+ your simplistic view ignores the 30 (?) day money back if not satisfied....for any reason...except of course if you drop the bottle of hooch and it's YOUR fault it's broken
I think when it comes to livestock it's caveat emptor....

Nobody I know of does business on these terms.

From memory, the contract isn't complete (and revenue can't be recognised) while there is still a possibility of management involvement in the transaction. By definition, if there s a possibility of a partial refund, the contract can't be complete....but all of this will be defined in the offer/terms.

 

[Beefriendly]

Nobody I know of does business on these terms..

Every major company in this country has to....
"Your 30 day right to return. You have the legal right to a refund if you return your faulty good within 30 days of receiving it"
Many extend to not happy. etc. Look at ebays refund policies.

Different for livestock where current regulations state...
The Sale of Goods Act 1979 says that goods should be...of satisfactory quality. Livestock sold must meet the standards that any reasonable person would expect, taking into account the description, price and all other relevant information, including in particular that they are in a healthy state to be legally sold
fit for purpose. Livestock is generally sold for a particular purpose - for example, breeding, fatstock, as sporting animals, etc - and must be in a condition that allows them to fulfil that purpose. They must also be fit for any specific or particular purpose the buyer makes known to the seller at the time of the agreement
as described. Livestock sold should correspond with any description applied, in particular breed, heritage, age, etc
If any of the above are not met then there is a breach of contract and redress is possible. Consequential loss can also apply.

However, when you buy goods from a private individual you do not have the same rights as when buying from a trader. The legal principle of caveat emptor ('buyer beware') operates. You have no rights to expect that goods be of satisfactory quality or fit for their purpose, but there is a requirement that they should be 'as described' and that the seller has the legal right to sell them (is the owner, for example). You should check goods thoroughly before you buy them.

 

[B+.]

Every major company in this country has to....
"Your 30 day right to return. You have the legal right to a refund if you return your faulty good within 30 days of receiving it"
Many extend to not happy. etc. Look at ebays refund policies.

Now, you're changing what you said. You said money back for any reason, now you're talking about defects....completely different scenario.

 

[Anduril]

A commercial beek near me had a phone call about a nuc someone had bought complaining that the queen had stopped laying. Questioned whether the beek was feeding the nuc, the response was no. The beek was told to start feeding and the queen would come back into lay, never heard from that beek again.

 

[BMH]

I sold a nuc the other day and told the guy he needed to feed.

He knew what he was doing apparently...

Rung me up and told he though they were starving and they werent eating the jelly.

That's right. He was feeding them jelly!

Sometimes you just have to let them get on with it hey?