Unpublished research

[TooBee...]

I've heard that Dr Jonathan Ellis from the University of Plymouth has done a lot of comparative analyses (on A. m. mellifera here) the conclusion being that the CORNISH A. m. mellifera are not closely related to any other A. m. mellifera and in fact are spatially distant genetically from each other ( Three distinct groups)... so far unpublished work.

Does anyone have access to this work,
1. that shows the Cornish A. m. mellifera is not related to other A. m. mellifera (is a separate Subspecie being suggested?)
2. and actually splits into THREE distinct groups (are Forms being suggested?)

Yes, I could just contact the guy, but it's unpublished, so I'm doubting I'll get it!

I'm guessing that this is the same person,
https://www.plymouth.ac.uk/staff/jon-ellis

and from looking at his publications, he has one work on A. m. mellifera,
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10841-018-0067-7
The conclusion of which is that "Genetic diversity is relatively high in comparison with other European populations" which is kinda strange as my understanding is that the B4 Project (which funded the research) would seek to reduce genetic diversity, which we know from other research weakens a colony - but as I don't have access to the entire paper I could be wrong.

 

[Repwoc]

Yes, I could just contact the guy, but it's unpublished, so I'm doubting I'll get it!

He'll probably be reluctant to give you unpublished data, particularly if he intends to publish a paper based on them, but he may enter into a discussion and answer questions. Ask him.

 

[fatshark]

Not Cornish, but a recently published metagenome analysis of the honey bee genome ... https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-018-07426-0 ... which includes comparison and discussion of Amm, including this:

Given the level of bee imports into Scotland, it was therefore reassuring – and perhaps surprising – to observe that the genotypes of other colonies from around Scotland were close to that of the Colonsay sample, although distinct from samples from A. m. mellifera breeding programmes in England. The low heterozygosity of Scottish A. m. mellifera and continued survival in face of imports may reflect natural selection for A. m. mellifera genotypes in the colder climates and shorter foraging season of northern Europe.

Not sure if this has appeared on BKF before, but a search for 'metagenome' didn't turn anything up.

 

[For want of a better word]

My understanding is that there are Cornish Amm sub-groups within the Species that are closely related to each other, but DNA wise, are distinctively distant from other groups ( Colonsay, Northumbrian, Manx, Irish and French) indicating that the Cornish Amm did not originate from recent importation of any the similar, but different groups.

To put it into perspective .. there are areas in Cornwall that are isolated from importation and have very low levels of introgression... and others due to importation by some beekeepers that do not have any empathy for Cornish Amm... and therefore show *high levels of introgression* due to their actions... anthropological interference!!

**This gives the high level of DNA diversification in the population.

Perhaps you could purchase the paper.

I know that a lot of work is being funded by B4.... and that "genetic stabilisation", by asking beekeepers not to import exotic species into some areas... is at best all that can be asked for.

Chons da

 

[Stiffy]

I've heard that Dr Jonathan Ellis from the University of Plymouth has done a lot of comparative analyses (on A. m. mellifera here) the conclusion being that the CORNISH A. m. mellifera are not closely related to any other A. m. mellifera and in fact are spatially distant genetically from each other ( Three distinct groups)... so far unpublished work.

Does anyone have access to this work,
1. that shows the Cornish A. m. mellifera is not related to other A. m. mellifera (is a separate Subspecie being suggested?)
2. and actually splits into THREE distinct groups (are Forms being suggested?)

Yes, I could just contact the guy, but it's unpublished, so I'm doubting I'll get it!

I'm guessing that this is the same person,
https://www.plymouth.ac.uk/staff/jon-ellis

and from looking at his publications, he has one work on A. m. mellifera,
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10841-018-0067-7
The conclusion of which is that "Genetic diversity is relatively high in comparison with other European populations" which is kinda strange as my understanding is that the B4 Project (which funded the research) would seek to reduce genetic diversity, which we know from other research weakens a colony - but as I don't have access to the entire paper I could be wrong.

If you are on LinkedIn you could send an enquiry to him and start a conversation?
S

 

[Finman]

The discussion start is good. Cornwall has its own bee race, which is not relative to usual black bee. Perhaps the researcher has better to do.

 

[For want of a better word]

The discussion start is good. Cornwall has its own bee race, which is not relative to usual black bee. Perhaps the researcher has better to do.

Seems the Cornish variant is as closely linked to the Northumbrian variant as the Russian one are to the french.
Not all sheep are the same.... or cows or gods or elephants for that matter!

Nadelik Lowen

 

[Finman]

or cows or gods or elephants for that matter!

Nadelik Lowen

Heureka!

 

[charlievictorbravo]

You could try to get in touch with the secretary of the B4 Project, Andrew Brown, who might be able to assist you - https://www.b4project.co.uk/contact

CVB

 

[TooBee...]

...by asking beekeepers not to import exotic species into some areas... is at best all that can be asked for.
Chons da

You could actually be more right about that than you actually realize. Recently I've come across a couple of mentions of the Danish Amm reservation at Laeso, in which it actually had one of the lowest pure populations even though it was one of the few European reserves in Law! It appears some of the local Beeks took exception to being told what they could and could not keep... causing a bit of a back lash, which has resulted in even more of a genetic mix ... you can join the dots in figuring out what happened!

 

[Madge]

... Recently I've come across a couple of mentions of the Danish Amm reservation at Laeso, [etc.]... causing a bit of a back lash, which has resulted in even more of a genetic mix ... you can join the dots in figuring out what happened!

No, I don’t know what you have in mind.

There was a long hoo-ha in the beginning, but by now the island is, from what I understand from a talk by Per Kryger at a SNHBS meeting, successfully split in two between Amm and ligustica.

See the article on his talk, and attached PDF here: http://www.snhbs.scot/snhbs-annual-meeting/

 

[TooBee...]

There was a long hoo-ha in the beginning, but by now the island is, from what I understand from a talk by Per Kryger at a SNHBS meeting, successfully split in two between Amm and ligustica.

See the article on his talk, and attached PDF here: http://www.snhbs.scot/snhbs-annual-meeting/

You've made your point excellently, and also the point of those that show .... mmm... some resistance to Black Bee-ers ... attempt to impose their enthusiasm on others (there, I think that was put rather tactfully!).

The article shows that working with, and getting an agreement with local beeks works out better in the long run. Otherwise you're going to get beeks using drone foundation sheets (or allowing the bees to draw out natural comb, the ones that do this says it produces loads of drone cells without anyone realizing their ulterior motives) just to increase the number of non Amm drones in the area - the message is starting to become clear; IF there is a pure Amm population in your area, there is a risk of a conservation area being imposed, by peer pressure from other beeks, from your local Assoc. and then by Gov. interference.

 

[For want of a better word]

I've heard that Dr Jonathan Ellis from the University of Plymouth has done a lot of comparative analyses (on A. m. mellifera here) the conclusion being that the CORNISH A. m. mellifera are not closely related to any other A. m. mellifera and in fact are spatially distant genetically from each other ( Three distinct groups)... so far unpublished work.

Does anyone have access to this work,
1. that shows the Cornish A. m. mellifera is not related to other A. m. mellifera (is a separate Subspecie being suggested?)
2. and actually splits into THREE distinct groups (are Forms being suggested?)

Yes, I could just contact the guy, but it's unpublished, so I'm doubting I'll get it!

I'm guessing that this is the same person,
https://www.plymouth.ac.uk/staff/jon-ellis

and from looking at his publications, he has one work on A. m. mellifera,
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10841-018-0067-7
The conclusion of which is that "Genetic diversity is relatively high in comparison with other European populations" which is kinda strange as my understanding is that the B4 Project (which funded the research) would seek to reduce genetic diversity, which we know from other research weakens a colony - but as I don't have access to the entire paper I could be wrong.

Your open opportunity to ask a question.
https://bibba.com/event/eden-2/
Book early as tickets are limited.
Nadelik Lowen

 

[TooBee...]

HONEY BEE CONSERVATION AND SUSTAINABLE BEEKEEPING...
...3. Prof Grace P McCormack, National University of Ireland Galway:-Feral bees and Irish proposals for rewilding native honey bees.

Now that's one Lecture that I'd like to see on YouTube afterwards. I'm guessing "re-wilding" is an euphemism for something else, of the top of my head ... allowing Amm's to swarm to spread their pure genes (I know beeks here in Ireland that are doing this already with non-Amm's) or establishing a conservation area or something.

 

[TooBee...]

Thought I had found something but just got this dead link
http://www.nuigalway.ie/faculties_d...And_Systematics_Laboratory/wildbeeintern.html

so the best I've come up with is this old 2013 article
http://www.nuigalway.ie/about-us/ne...proach-in-tackling-global-threat-to-bees.html
in which the last paragraph says;
"There are plans being discussed ... the goal is to allow the Native Irish bee to return to the wild - helping not only the bees but the flowers they pollinate and the biodiversity this brings"

- basically from gleaning from some other sources, it appears to be an extension of NIHBS attempt to breed a Varroa (and everything else) resistant Irish Native Bee - heard about this "Varroa Tolerance Breeding program" back in 2013 ... not heard anything else... and there's me getting myself excited about something new!

Anyway, back to the OP, I think I may be about to receive the elusive "unpublished papers", fingers crossed!

 

[Finman]

Thought I had found something but just got this dead link
http://www.nuigalway.ie/faculties_d...And_Systematics_Laboratory/wildbeeintern.html


- basically from gleaning from some other sources, it appears to be an extension of NIHBS attempt to breed a Varroa (and everything else) resistant Irish Native !

Actually they are calling beekeepers together and teach beekeepers to identify nosema.

And then imagination gets wings...... Next step is to make varroa tolerant AMM and return it to Ireland's nature.

One step is to return native Irish black bee. Wikipedia says that according DNA most of Irish black bees originates from Holland and from France.

Lots of goals there!.

 

[TooBee...]

...
And then imagination gets wings...... Next step is to make varroa tolerant AMM and return it to Ireland's nature...

Yes, that's what I've heard as well, there was talk some years ago (2004? I think) of Varroa resistant breeding groups for Amm just south of Dublin, was mentioned at an Amm talk I was at, but when the speaker was asked about it's progress... "not sure... still working on it" !

The Buckfast breeders seem to have got there first anyway, I think that 85% varroa resistant (queen) bees are now becoming available from next year,

https://buckfast-zucht.de/index.php?seite=berichte&la=en
NEW: “Hygiene”-Buckfast Queens

There are Buckfast enthusiasts here in Ireland; and the new beeks are far more interested in Varroa resistance than keeping so called natives, a large number of older beeks seem to have the same attitude, so I suspect that we are going to see a lot more Buckfast DNA being introduced into the native gene pool...

 

[For want of a better word]

Yes, that's what I've heard as well, there was talk some years ago (2004? I think) of Varroa resistant breeding groups for Amm just south of Dublin, was mentioned at an Amm talk I was at, but when the speaker was asked about it's progress... "not sure... still working on it" !

The Buckfast breeders seem to have got there first anyway, I think that 85% varroa resistant (queen) bees are now becoming available from next year,

https://buckfast-zucht.de/index.php?seite=berichte&la=en
NEW: “Hygiene”-Buckfast Queens

There are Buckfast enthusiasts here in Ireland; and the new beeks are far more interested in Varroa resistance than keeping so called natives, a large number of older beeks seem to have the same attitude, so I suspect that we are going to see a lot more Buckfast DNA being introduced into the native gene pool...

Shock Horror>><><>

May the New Year be trill free...

Yeghes da

 

[Finman]

.
Highly hygienic bees do not promise to kill mites.
.