Unite advice please

[parkranger]

Firstly..Yes, i have read previous threads and posts but not sure that they answer my question.

I performed an A/S and then subsequently had a swarm from one part which i caught. I currently have from left to right the A/S hive in the original position with one super on but no Queen. In the middle, the other half of the A/S which I am sure has a virgin queen and I am just waiting for her to start laying. On the right, the swarm which has a laying queen. I want to unite the swarm with the A/S on the far left but am concerned that the flying bees will fly back to the current sight and then re-orientate to the hive in the middle.
I think that the correct procedure is to put the Q+ part of a unite on the bottom, otherwise I would put them on the top and hope that by the time they got through the paper they might have been happy in their new position. Also, is it absolutely necessary to clear the super when uniting and replacing afterwards.

Appreciate the wisdom of the forum - thanks

 

[enrico]

In these circumstances in would benefit you to put swarm on bottom, paper, queen right on top and leave super on. It doesn't make that much difference. I would do it on a cool evening. You will still get fliers looking at the old site but it will do no harm for them to fly to the centre hive, it will just boost their numbers!
The reason the AS hive swarmed is you missed a queen cell. You must check the queen right colony religiously to ensure they have not build emergency cells.
I might even put a bit of grass in the entrance to make them hesitate a bit more,
Let us know how you get on!
Do not do this on a hot day, they can overheat in the top before they get through the paper and this is your only laying queen
E

 

[oliver90owner]

If they are close together, does it really matter that much, whatever happened? Just make sure there is only one queen cell in there, or simply wait until she has emerged and casts are definitely no longer a risk.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

In these circumstances in would benefit you to put swarm on bottom, paper, queen right on top and leave super on. It doesn't make that much difference. I would do it on a cool evening. You will still get fliers looking at the old site but it will do no harm for them to fly to the centre hive, it will just boost their numbers!
The reason the AS hive swarmed is you missed a queen cell. You must check the queen right colony religiously to ensure they have not build emergency cells.

Firstly, are you sure your swarmed queen didn't leave a QC behind before she left the A/S colony?

As Enrico says, doesn't matter if the Q+ part of the unite is on top - they'll sort themselves out in short order.

 

[parkranger]

In these circumstances in would benefit you to put swarm on bottom, paper, queen right on top and leave super on. It doesn't make that much difference. I would do it on a cool evening. You will still get fliers looking at the old site but it will do no harm for them to fly to the centre hive, it will just boost their numbers!
The reason the AS hive swarmed is you missed a queen cell. You must check the queen right colony religiously to ensure they have not build emergency cells.
I might even put a bit of grass in the entrance to make them hesitate a bit more,
Let us know how you get on!
Do not do this on a hot day, they can overheat in the top before they get through the paper and this is your only laying queen
E

Enrico
Not sure if I explained it clearly enough. The "swarm" that I guess issued from
my A/S and I caught is the only current Q+ colony. You say swarm on bottom and Q+ above with super on top but that surely means two lots of paper?

Have I misunderstood and you mean move the (Q+ swarm) to the bottom and then paper / old part of A/s (currently Q-) with super above?

My first unite so don't want to bugger it up!

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Have I misunderstood and you mean move the (Q+ swarm) to the bottom and then paper / old part of A/s (currently Q-) with super above?
My first unite so don't want to bugger it up!

I think that's what he means (that's what I understood anyway) - Put newspaper over the Q- hive, Q+ hive on top then leave them to it.
Not banging on Parkranger but are you 100% sure there isn't a virgin queen in the hive your old queen swarmed out of. They can be pretty sneaky with hiding some of these QC's you know.

 

[parkranger]

I think that's what he means (that's what I understood anyway) - Put newspaper over the Q- hive, Q+ hive on top then leave them to it.
Not banging on Parkranger but are you 100% sure there isn't a virgin queen in the hive your old queen swarmed out of. They can be pretty sneaky with hiding some of these QC's you know.

Jenks - I am as sure as anyone can be that there is no virgin in there.The pattern of pollen storage makes me think that they are not preparing for a laying queen.
Regarding the actual unite, the way that you read it would put the super (with bees or without ?) above the Q+ hive . If "with bees" then surely two lots of paper as actually two unites. Or, are my brains scrambled in this rare heat.

 

[enrico]

It really doesn't matter what you do . Let me put it like this, the brood box with the super on top of the bb without the super with paper between brood box's. doesn't matter which one the queen is in, you don't want the hassle of two bits of paper. So bottom to top...bb.....paper.....bb....excluder.....super. As long as the queen is in one bb you will be ok!

 

[parkranger]

It really doesn't matter what you do . Let me put it like this, the brood box with the super on top of the bb without the super with paper between brood box's. doesn't matter which one the queen is in, you don't want the hassle of two bits of paper. So bottom to top...bb.....paper.....bb....excluder.....super. As long as the queen is in one bb you will be ok!

Ok, maybe I am overthinking it - never a good thing, especially in Beekeeping.
Thanks all for your advice. Will do is soon as we have a cool evening...shouldn't have to wait too long should I.