The Next Dilemma

[Robin Ashfield]

Almost at the end of year one, I have somehow managed to turn 1 colony into three, which wasn't the plan at the start of the year.
The first colony has 3 full supers nearly all capped, whereas the other two seem to be happy just messing around in their brood chambers.
I'm not sure if I should take 1 or 2 supers for extraction, They have done such an amazing job, I don't want to take too much!

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Take two. Also, I don't know what your target hive count is, or how strong the two other colonies are but I would be considering getting rid of one queen and uniting for the winter

 

[dexter's shed]

it's not winter yet, but you could put one super under each brood box, give them all a chance, I never took any honey till the 2nd year

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

That's a bit daft - way too early to nadir and you should only do it with unripe uncapped stores anyway - all you're doing is creating more work for the bees.

 

[Tomo]

Personally I would take everything in the supers, treat for varoa, feed sugar syrup, heft. Job done. Don't get sentimental, simple economics: honey £4.50 ish per pound, sugar 76p per pound ish.

 

[mbc]

Almost at the end of year one, I have somehow managed to turn 1 colony into three, which wasn't the plan at the start of the year.
The first colony has 3 full supers nearly all capped, whereas the other two seem to be happy just messing around in their brood chambers.
I'm not sure if I should take 1 or 2 supers for extraction, They have done such an amazing job, I don't want to take too much!

????????
3 every time(with the proviso they have some stores in the brood box to avoid starvation before an autumn feed) leaving full supers is a muggs game, if you feed on top you then have supers with sugar syrup in to give you vexation next year, also complicates varroa treatment.
.
Everyone with any sense knows bees don't really like honey, messy sticky stuff much better on your own breakfast table(also about £12/Kg), what they want is a nice clean source of easily processed carbohydrate like sugar(49p/Kg).
The idea that taking honey and feeding back sugar is somehow mean or disadvantageous to the bees ignores bee biology and is entirely a construct of the urban human mind, harvest sensibly and feed the bees at appropriate times and both keeper and bees will be better off imho.

 

[Finman]

.
Quite simple. Extract all and hive has room to make Winter bees and it gets more honey.
Nothing wrong in Sugar wintering.

IT is odd if you try now to stop its foraging. Then Winter bee brood will be poor.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

The idea that taking honey and feeding back sugar is somehow mean or disadvantageous to the bees ignores bee biology and is entirely a construct of the urban human mind, harvest sensibly and feed the bees at appropriate times and both keeper and bees will be better off imho.

Also, just thought - you have three supers nearly all capped - how many supers on altogether? if none, you need more space fast or your bees will swarm (again?) my thoughts are - if they are halfway filling a super you should make sure they have an empty one to move into.

 

[Thymallus]

or how strong the two other colonies are but I would be considering getting rid of one queen and uniting for the winter

What are peoples takes on what constitutes a weak hive and the decision to unite for winter?
Number of frames of brood in late summer, number of full seams of bees?
I tend to put any small colonies into poly nucs for overwintering....as an insurance for next springs emergencies. I've found, at least where I live, wooden nucs do not get through the winter.

 

[REDWOOD]

Almost at the end of year one, I have somehow managed to turn 1 colony into three,

Notorious with a standard 10 frame WBC hive

 

[Robin Ashfield]

Thank you for your advice. I will add another super today. I can't believe just how quickly they have filled them!

 

[Vramin]

The idea that taking honey and feeding back sugar is somehow mean or disadvantageous to the bees ignores bee biology and is entirely a construct of the urban human mind, harvest sensibly and feed the bees at appropriate times and both keeper and bees will be better off imho.

Sorry, but this is just not true. Research is starting to show that eating sugar has a very different effect on gene expression compared with honey.

Now it's not yet saying that bees are disadvantaged by having sugar, but it's not as simple as thinking that all sugar sources are equal.

http://www.nature.com/srep/2014/140717/srep05726/full/srep05726.html

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/05/130501132051.htm

 

[pargyle]

Sorry, but this is just not true. Research is starting to show that eating sugar has a very different effect on gene expression compared with honey.

Now it's not yet saying that bees are disadvantaged by having sugar, but it's not as simple as thinking that all sugar sources are equal.

http://www.nature.com/srep/2014/140717/srep05726/full/srep05726.html

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/05/130501132051.htm

Aren't these articles from the USA where they tend to feed corn syrup (HFCS) rather than the sugar which we use over here ? I don't consider HFCS as appropriate bee food.

Whilst I wouldn't take all the honey out of my colonies and I agree that bees will overwinter best on their own honey if it is possible, I would have little concern about feeding bees with proper sugar syrup .. Tate & best beet sugar usually.

 

[Finman]

.
Dilemma means selecting between two equaly bad alternatives .
One bad alterative is that you have got a good yield... And what is the another as bad alternative?

 

[Ely]

Personally I would take everything in the supers, treat for varoa, feed sugar syrup, heft. Job done. Don't get sentimental, simple economics: honey £4.50 ish per pound, sugar 76p per pound ish.

Looks look you are under selling your honey! I charge £5 for 12oz

 

[Finman]

Whilst I wouldn't take all the honey out of my colonies and I agree that bees will overwinter best on their own honey if it is possible, I would have little concern about feeding bees with proper sugar syrup .. Tate & best beet sugar usually.

Sugar is equally good winfer food to bees as own honey. It is only same carbohydrate. What is important to welfare of wintering is pollen stores and quality of pollen.

My bees live with sugar from September to May. It is 8-9 months. Nothing wrong in it.

Bees get other nutritiens from pollen mixture.

Professionals who have 1000 hives in Finland start to feed hives a month earlier than me, and in many cases bees live with sugar 10 months. And no problems.

 

[BeeJayBee]

Sorry, but this is just not true. Research is starting to show that eating sugar has a very different effect on gene expression compared with honey.

Now it's not yet saying that bees are disadvantaged by having sugar, but it's not as simple as thinking that all sugar sources are equal.

http://www.nature.com/srep/2014/140717/srep05726/full/srep05726.html

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/05/130501132051.htm

Aren't these articles from the USA where they tend to feed corn syrup (HFCS) rather than the sugar which we use over here ? I don't consider HFCS as appropriate bee food.

Both articles refer solely to beekeeping practices, and the apparent 'decline' of bees, in USA and both articles actually refer to bees being fed HFCS rather than the white sugar solution we use here in Britain.

HFCS isn't nice stuff, there have been reports about it for quite some time. here's one from 2009 http://www.naturalnews.com/027286_HFCS_food_bees.html

Most UK beekeepers will leave brood box honey for the bees, topping it up as necessary with either a syrup solution or with fondant. There's nothing wrong with using either as a supplementary feed.

 

[Finman]

.
Sugar affects on genes.... In bees...well....how?

That is better explanation than mobile phones (radio waves)

 

[wessexmario]

If you take ALL the honey and expect bees to survive a long winter feeding just on plain sucrose without all the pollen, antibiotics and other constituents of honey that they've stored for their survival then don't be surprised if you do have weak colonies at the end of the winter.
Sugar feeding should be a contingency feed, not a norm, IMHO.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

If you take ALL the honey and expect bees to survive a long winter feeding just on plain sucrose without all the pollen, antibiotics and other constituents of honey that they've stored for their survival then don't be surprised if you do have weak colonies at the end of the winter.
Sugar feeding should be a contingency feed, not a norm, IMHO.

It is just your opinion - I usually take all the honey off and feed syrup - I would be very surprised if they were weak at the end of winter - they're usually strong enough to catch me unawares at the beginning of spring