so heres the story!!

[fox403]

i live in a rural part Northumberland were theres a old walled garden, now gardener has been there 30+ years and he said gardener who retired before him said it been there before he started so easy 50+ years.....ok its in a south facing wall one 10 feet high other say 15 feet high and 50 feet from other nest ...and heres the problem ...one above the green-house is going to be filled in! it needs all pointing as for years bees seem be tunnelling deeper into the wall..seems hell of a job I'm going to have to get them out so any advice would be helpful...

 

[Dishmop]

Dont stand on the glass?

 

[Andre cardona]

dismantall brikis and cut out good luck

 

[BBG]

That looks like a flying buttress or nearest thing. I, repeat, I, would take that part of the buttress apart slowly and gain access to them that way.

Some of it needs replacing anyway as seen.

Not actually removed bees in that situation before but its the Queen you're after to put in a box hanging right there to collect everybody else perhaps, so ....

BOL - looks interesting and as Dishmop says "Don't tread on the glass"

The greenhouse looks due for renewal too.

 

[user 6228]

is it just repointing? not reconstruction
if so why not find a way to repoint and leave a hole for the bees , with the hole protected by a peice of lead flashing or copper pipe or plastic pipe. So instead of remving them you do a bit of pointing your bee suit.

 

[fox403]

Owners want it redone, ,,not everyone's bee friendly! Had my way I'd leave an exit,,,chances are if don't do something be killed off,,,shame when they and grandparents used that nest for 50 years

Sent from my MB525 using Tapatalk

 

[alanf]

one above the green-house is going to be filled in! it needs all pointing as for years bees seem be tunnelling deeper into the wall..

Looks like they are in part of a flue or chimney. That probably dates from the time the greenhouse was added and had solid fuel heating. The cavity is where they are living, probably not causing much damage to the wall itself which is crumbling with the weather. At any rate, the wall behind looks different (lime mortar?) to the flue addition (portland cement mortar).

If the intention is to retain the greenhouse, any partial demolition is going to be risky for the worker and the greenhouse but hard to know what else to suggest. If the owner is unsympathetic that may be more than they will permit.

 

[Silly Bee]

Dont stand on the glass?

 

[AnotherNewBee]

Remove some of the greenhouse glass to gain safe(r) access to buttress.

Remove part of buttress to gain access to colony.

Remove colony.

Repair buttress.

Repair greenhouse timbers (if required).

Reglaze greenhouse.

Alternatively, if the greenhouse is going to be restored - wait until then.

Added: What's on the other side of the wall?

 

[RoofTops]

I think some of the above are an awful lot of work and risk for a single colony. Of course this could be the legendary survivor colony whch is resistant to varroa, in which case it is perhaps worth trying something to to get then out first.

If it is part of a flue try and find where the fires were and see what pumping a lot of smoke up the chimney will do. It is just possible you may be able to drive them out - ideally into a nuc placed somewhere near the entrance. A chemical repellant of the type used for clearing supers would probably help. Alternatively, drill a hole in the wall or carefully remove a few bricks (carefully so the rest don't fall on you) where you think the colony might be and blow smoke in that way. I have driven a colony out of the roof of a porch this way.

However, not at this time of the year - wait until April I suggest.

If that doesn't work there has been a method described for getting a colony out of a hole in a wall which uses a sort of trap to prevent bees which have emerged re-entering and directing them to a nuc placed beside the entrance. A cone of greenhouse shading was what was used in the article I saw. The wide end of the cone is stuck over the entrance and the narrow end points outwards. I have heard two desciptions of this method - in one it said the queen will eventually emerge and join the other bees but in the other account it said you have to add a new queen to the collected bees. Which would be a shame if this really is some sort of survivor colony.
If you are going to try this probably best to seal up all the entrances except one with sponge to make it easier to set up the one-way valve. The method is not quick - at least 3 or 4 weeks for a result.

 

[mbc]

I think some of the above are an awful lot of work and risk for a single colony. Of course this could be the legendary survivor colony whch is resistant to varroa, in which case it is perhaps worth trying something to to get then out first.

If it is part of a flue try and find where the fires were and see what pumping a lot of smoke up the chimney will do. It is just possible you may be able to drive them out - ideally into a nuc placed somewhere near the entrance. A chemical repellant of the type used for clearing supers would probably help. Alternatively, drill a hole in the wall or carefully remove a few bricks (carefully so the rest don't fall on you) where you think the colony might be and blow smoke in that way. I have driven a colony out of the roof of a porch this way.

However, not at this time of the year - wait until April I suggest.

If that doesn't work there has been a method described for getting a colony out of a hole in a wall which uses a sort of trap to prevent bees which have emerged re-entering and directing them to a nuc placed beside the entrance. A cone of greenhouse shading was what was used in the article I saw. The wide end of the cone is stuck over the entrance and the narrow end points outwards. I have heard two desciptions of this method - in one it said the queen will eventually emerge and join the other bees but in the other account it said you have to add a new queen to the collected bees. Which would be a shame if this really is some sort of survivor colony.
If you are going to try this probably best to seal up all the entrances except one with sponge to make it easier to set up the one-way valve. The method is not quick - at least 3 or 4 weeks for a result.

I've tried that, or at least a variation where the nuc had some open brood as a draw for the returning bees. Never again, a big frustrating waste of time and effort, dismantling the wall to get at them is the way to go about recovering the colony IMO

 

[Rich0909]

Bear in mind that if that is a former flue serving the greenhouse the colony could be several feet from their entrance - if you can borrow a cavity inspection camera to view them or something to listen for them from outside it could save removing a lot of masonry....
I think you may end up having to leave them to their fate unfortunately.

 

[fox403]

thanks for all the suggestions,,it is an old flu system thats been sealed off still grow peaches to sum degree,,, as can see by pictures alot entrances and exits i think be combs here there and everywhere finding and getting queen out be a nightmare if i start taking wall out it could lead anywhere...il have a think...

 

[AnotherNewBee]

Looks like a job for a Mills Bomb.

 

[VEG]

I hope you get something in writing to say you are not liable for any damage because as soon as you start to dismantle that there will be a lot of rebuilding as it is not just pointing that wall needs.

 

[Bram]

Hi Fox, good luck mate, im sure you'll sort it out you'll have to skip a few ww2 onlines tho S! Bram

 

[Madge]

... there has been a method described for getting a colony out of a hole in a wall which uses a sort of trap to prevent bees which have emerged re-entering and directing them to a nuc placed beside the entrance. A cone of greenhouse shading was what was used in the article I saw. The wide end of the cone is stuck over the entrance and the narrow end points outwards. I have heard two desciptions of this method - in one it said the queen will eventually emerge and join the other bees but in the other account it said you have to add a new queen to the collected bees. Which would be a shame if this really is some sort of survivor colony.
If you are going to try this probably best to seal up all the entrances except one with sponge to make it easier to set up the one-way valve. The method is not quick - at least 3 or 4 weeks for a result.

I have seen a similar method described:

Block all entrances in the wall except one and cover it with a cone of gauze about 300mm long and about 150mm wide at the wall end, ending in a small exit with the diameter of a pencil leading into a new hive which is set near to the wall with its entrance as close to the old entrance as possible - see attachment. The hive should contain a full set of frames, preferably with drawn comb. Bees leaving the hive in the wall must travel through the cone into the new hive, and can't find their way back. After the third of fourth day when there is a sufficient number of bees in the new hive, add a frame of brood so that a new queen can be created. Once you have a laying queen the gauze cone can be removed (after about three or four weeks). The bees will now rob the honey from their old home, killing their former queen and her attendants (says the article).

(I've tried to add a pdf but it doesn't work. If you want to see the picture, please send me a message.)

 

[Skyhook]

If they're getting the wall repaired, presumably the builder will need some sort of access- hopefully scaffold. Wait until that's up, then you can go up, remove the top of the buttress/flue, and either doa cut out, or put a box over the top and try to drive them up with smoke. Without scaffold it looks b****y lethal, and it's not worth dying for.

 

[Into the lions den]

I think the moment I was asked to do that is the moment my failing memory burst back into life and I recalled the urgent appointment I had in Bulawayo.............and it could take months.

 

[For want of a better word]

Put a solid floored hive with one brood box with seven frames 3 feet and 3 inches distance and at same level from the entrance. Bait up with a bait sausage.. this will be irresistible to the bees and they will vacate their old chimney in no time.
Then at night sneak up with a red light, quickly stick a piece of foam in the entrance to the hive, return at sunrise the following day and remove hive + bees some 6 miles away.. feed with 1:1 syrup... success guaranteed!

Do not stand on the glass !

Best carried out coming up to a full moon !