"Recycling" honey?

[Pope Pius IX]

Hello everyone, beginner's questions here.

I got a fair few frames of honey of varying quality (probably about 20 supers and 6 brood) from the hives I had back in September. However, the hives were at my place of work and I didn't have an extractor, so the honey just sat in the frames. I put the frames in plastic boxes with fitted lids, to prevent anything happening to it.

The autumn and winter came on and unfortunately two of the hives died (no idea why; no signs of disease or varroa, they didn't starve, and they didn't freeze) and the other two upped and left at some point in March.

New colonies arrived last week.

I finally got back to the frames today, but unfortunately there were some beasties in there - moths, larvae, and the frames were covered with spider-web like material. I didn't see any mould, as such, but I can't guarantee I didn't see it.

This honey is, I'm assuming, useless to me. So, two questions...

1. Am I right in saying that I should not extract this honey to eat or to sell?
2. Assuming I shouldn't eat it or sell it, the next best option I can think of is to place them all outside the new hives so that the new colonies can build up their stores. Would there be any problems with doing this?

And I suppose...if I can't do any of those, I also have question 3...what should I do instead?

Thank you!

 

[drex]

Wax moth. The frames will contain larval poo, so, no I would not eat.
Leaving frames outside hives is inviting any bee from miles away, carrying possible disease.
If you want to feed it to your bees, I would put in freezer for 48 hours to kill the moths and larvae, and then could feed to a hive over an open crown board. Saying that, in my experience the moths make such a mess of frames, I normally just bin them

 

[bingevader]

It sounds like the frames are in a bit of a mess. We've all been there though.
The moths, larvae and spider webs are all related: Wax Moth. They'll move in on any vacant or abandoned frames and make a terrible mess.
If the honey is still capped, then there'd be no harm in you using it, at least, not sure about selling it ( you'd need to cut it out of the mess first!).
Leaving the frames outside the new hives would be frowned upon. Two reasons, you don't know why the other hives died, so can't rule out disease or infection that could be passed on to the new hives. Also, if you leave the frames outside the new hives, you'll encourage any bee from the area to come and rob it, not just your own.

 

[Pope Pius IX]

Thanks both, that's really useful. On balance, doesn't seem like my eating (or selling) the honey would be prudent. I may end up putting the frames back for the bees, in a hive, having frozen them first.

One other possibility occurred to me...if I were to melt the wax & honey using a steamer, then strain off the honey and bin it (or put it in feeders for the bees), I'd be left with the wax...could I turn that into beeswax blocks, or candles?

The reason I'm asking this is because I look after these hives on behalf of a school, and I'm anxious to actually create something so that the students can point to some sort of physical achievement...

 

[pargyle]

Thanks both, that's really useful. On balance, doesn't seem like my eating (or selling) the honey would be prudent. I may end up putting the frames back for the bees, in a hive, having frozen them first.

One other possibility occurred to me...if I were to melt the wax & honey using a steamer, then strain off the honey and bin it (or put it in feeders for the bees), I'd be left with the wax...could I turn that into beeswax blocks, or candles?

The reason I'm asking this is because I look after these hives on behalf of a school, and I'm anxious to actually create something so that the students can point to some sort of physical achievement...

Cut it all out and then crush and strain the honey off. You may need to put it in a warm place but if it's still runny in the comb you won't need to heat it ... make yourself one of these ...

https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/threads/cappings-bucket.48558/

 

[Antipodes]

Thanks both, that's really useful. On balance, doesn't seem like my eating (or selling) the honey would be prudent. I may end up putting the frames back for the bees, in a hive, having frozen them first.

One other possibility occurred to me...if I were to melt the wax & honey using a steamer, then strain off the honey and bin it (or put it in feeders for the bees), I'd be left with the wax...could I turn that into beeswax blocks, or candles?

The reason I'm asking this is because I look after these hives on behalf of a school, and I'm anxious to actually create something so that the students can point to some sort of physical achievement...

I'd suggest you steam the frames if you have a steamer set up (wallpaper steamer-use rain water if you have hard water in your area) and that will have the effect of separating the honey from the wax (the honey will be warmed, becoming less viscous and it will run off first...let it go), then you'll get the wax coming out the front of the set up. You'll need to filter the wax further after this, but it comes out remarkably clean. Tap out any residual matter from the frames after no more wax comes off, and then wash them off (using a scrubbing brush) in a very warm washing soda solution if you want to re-use them. Do it of an evening so bees aren't attracted to the operation.

 

[North End Bees]

As it's the honey crop from four hives which died out within the season, I would not feed it to any new bees.
Reclaim the wax and use it for candles.

 

[pargyle]

As it's the honey crop from four hives which died out within the season, I would not feed it to any new bees.
Reclaim the wax and use it for candles.

As there is no obvious signs of disease I would not be too concerned about feeding it back to the bees - what I would not do is heat it using a steamer as that could create high levels of HMF which is toxix to the bees. Crush and strain the honey then recover the wax. I would save the honey in a bucket until the autumn and then feed it back to the bees after this years extraction and allow them to store it for their winter use ... they will take it down like wildfire in the autumn if it's diluted a little and fed to them in a feeder. Clean the frames and re-use them. I think we can, sometimes, be a little over-cautious although I would not use the honey for human consumption. Obviously, if there are any live grubs in the frames I would wick them out and be a bit selective about just cutting out areas of capped cells to crush and strain.

 

[North End Bees]

As there is no obvious signs of disease I would not be too concerned about feeding it back to the bees [...] I think we can, sometimes, be a little over-cautious

The OP had no idea as to the cause of death but 'No obvious signs' may actually be obvious to someone with more experience.

Up to the individual to decide going forwards.

 

[roche]

As with Little_bees - reclaim the wax, don't use the honey at all.

 

[pargyle]

The OP had no idea as to the cause of death but 'No obvious signs' may actually be obvious to someone with more experience.

Up to the individual to decide going forwards.

Of course ... but 20 super frames and 6 brood frames is a lot of honey to go to waste - and if it's capped and just wax moth that's got in the bees won't mind it. Obviously, if they were really nasty frames with remnants of brood in there and signs of any brood disease I'd be more inclined to agree and dump the lot but ... as you say - personal choice but isn't that always the case in beekeeping ? Listen to all the contradictory advice then do your own thing !

 

[Ian123]

Hello everyone, beginner's questions here.

I got a fair few frames of honey of varying quality (probably about 20 supers and 6 brood) from the hives I had back in September. However, the hives were at my place of work and I didn't have an extractor, so the honey just sat in the frames. I put the frames in plastic boxes with fitted lids, to prevent anything happening to it.

The autumn and winter came on and unfortunately two of the hives died (no idea why; no signs of disease or varroa, they didn't starve, and they didn't freeze) and the other two upped and left at some point in March.

New colonies arrived last week.

I finally got back to the frames today, but unfortunately there were some beasties in there - moths, larvae, and the frames were covered with spider-web like material. I didn't see any mould, as such, but I can't guarantee I didn't see it.

This honey is, I'm assuming, useless to me. So, two questions...

1. Am I right in saying that I should not extract this honey to eat or to sell?
2. Assuming I shouldn't eat it or sell it, the next best option I can think of is to place them all outside the new hives so that the new colonies can build up their stores. Would there be any problems with doing this?

And I suppose...if I can't do any of those, I also have question 3...what should I do instead?

Thank you!

Just going back to the beginning did you treat the hives for varroa last autumn if so what did you use. I take it these hives came as nucs last year?

 

[Pope Pius IX]

Hello everyone and thanks for all the advice. At least consensus is that the wax is savable, so that's the bit I'll be focusing on at first. I'm also not going to have any human beings eat the honey. My mind isn't yet made up on the feeding of it to bees, and thank you to all those who've offered advice on this (and the other questions I've asked.)

The now-dead/abandoned hives were checked over for varroa and none was found, so there was no treatment. The two hives that died did not have a great many dead bees and those we examined had fully formed, intact wings.

The hives themselves arrived as nucs in early 2022.

 

[North End Bees]

The now-dead/abandoned hives were checked over for varroa and none was found, so there was no treatment. The two hives that died did not have a great many dead bees and those we examined had fully formed, intact wings.

The hives themselves arrived as nucs in early 2022.

Checked when?
Did they have any varroa treatment since starting up as nucs in the spring?

 

[Sutty]

Interesting that people wouldn't eat this honey, however they would eat (and sell) honey robbed from defunct colonies where the condition is unknown.....

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

The now-dead/abandoned hives were checked over for varroa and none was found

did you check every individual bee? or just fall into the usual trap of chucking in an inspection board for a day or two and then made the assumption?

 

[ericbeaumont]

honey is, I'm assuming, useless to me

Probably, but not to bees.

Freezing will work, but another option would be to spray all your stock of comb with Dipel or Bruco, which will put a stop to wax moth without affecting honey.

When you say you have 20 supers and 6 brood, do you mean 20 super frames and 6 brood, or 220 super frames and 6 brood?

Seal the combs in boxes and wait until a dearth: a June gap when you notice they're on the rob, or a drought, when nectar has dried up, or late summer when the nest contracts. At any of these times scrape the cappings with a fork - do this indoors or in a shed - and late in the day put the boxes above a crownboard with a small hole.

This method will increase the likelihood that bees will eat the honey rather than store it. Don't bother trying this if any sort of flow is on, because bees will only add to the combs.

Pargyle's method is quicker, but rather than cut out the whole comb out you could try scraping back to the foundation, which will give the bees a head start in rebuilding and save you time & money refitting foundation.

This method is also effective.

Bear in mind that before re-fitting foundation you will have to dip the frames in near-boilng washing soda because the side-bar grooves and all sorts of corners will be full of wax and the stickiness doesn't bear thinking about. Easier to burn the frames on a non-flying day (to avoid robbing).

unfortunately two of the hives died (no idea why)

the other two upped and left at some point in March.

Time to sharpen your curiosity, ask questions and find answers to avoid a repetition of these events next year. Of course, you may be loaded or perhaps the school is paying for the new colonies, but if not, your story could turn out to be an expensive annual event.

checked over for varroa and none was found, so there was no treatment

This is, frankly, delusional thinking because varroa will be in sealed brood and any that fall off onto a board may have been removed by other insects. In short, your colonies went into autumn with the health of winter bees compromised by high varroa load.

 

[user 20297]

Interesting that people wouldn't eat this honey, however they would eat (and sell) honey robbed from defunct colonies where the condition is unknown.....

....which probably happens more frequently than anyone realises.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

The now-dead/abandoned hives were checked over for varroa and none was found, so there was no treatment

This is, frankly, delusional thinking because varroa will be in sealed brood and any that fall off onto a board may have been removed by other insects. In short, your colonies went into autumn with the health of winter bees compromised by high varroa load.

 

[Ian123]

Hello everyone and thanks for all the advice. At least consensus is that the wax is savable, so that's the bit I'll be focusing on at first. I'm also not going to have any human beings eat the honey. My mind isn't yet made up on the feeding of it to bees, and thank you to all those who've offered advice on this (and the other questions I've asked.)

The now-dead/abandoned hives were checked over for varroa and none was found, so there was no treatment. The two hives that died did not have a great many dead bees and those we examined had fully formed, intact wings.

The hives themselves arrived as nucs in early 2022.

Your hives would have had varroa the level we could debate. Simply put treat your hives in the Autumn or at the very least use a good method to assess levels. Even then I’d suggest any treatment and reduction of mites would put your bees in better condition for Winter survival.
You lost all 4 hives so I’d be inclined to assess your Autumn preparations if not you’ll likely suffer the same again! It’s not having a go Beekeeping is a learning curve!