Queen introduction and time

[Show me the honey]

I have a queen I want to replace but due to work and other commitments I can only do this on Saturday. Most things I’ve read it says make queenless for 24 hours for best results. Some say a few hours is fine. So can I get away with getting to the apiary remove queen wait a few hours then use introduction cage with candy?

 

[Repwoc]

I've been following JBM's advice this year. Introduce the travelling cage with candy as soon as you remove the incumbent queen, but leave the plastic tab in place to protect the candy for a couple of days. Then if the bees seem OK with her remove (or just bend back) the plastic tab so they can free her in their own time. If they still seem to be aggressive towards the new queen, leave the tab in place a bit longer (I haven't had to do that yet).

Introducing the queen straight away means they are much less likely to start making EQCs.

 

[SuperHoney]

I have a queen I want to replace but due to work and other commitments I can only do this on Saturday. Most things I’ve read it says make queenless for 24 hours for best results. Some say a few hours is fine. So can I get away with getting to the apiary remove queen wait a few hours then use introduction cage with candy?

I'm no expert, but i replaced a queen last Sunday. I dispatched her and introduced a new queen using a introduction cage on the same day. I've been told to leave her for 4-5 days before releasing.

(The introduction cage is a different system to just a standard queen cage)

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

 

[Show me the honey]

I've been following JBM's advice this year. Introduce the travelling cage with candy as soon as you remove the incumbent queen, but leave the plastic tab in place to protect the candy for a couple of days. Then if the bees seem OK with her remove (or just bend back) the plastic tab so they can free her in their own time. If they still seem to be aggressive towards the new queen, leave the tab in place a bit longer (I haven't had to do that yet).

Introducing the queen straight away means they are much less likely to start making EQCs.

Ye think I read what JBM said when had a search earlier this will suit me well

 

[Swarm]

Kill old queen, add new one. It doesn't matter if you need to leave her in there for a week, they will feed her and she will be fine. Push in cages lose this safety aspect and bees can easily munch their way in to slaughter her if they feel inclined.

 

[rook66]

Kill old queen, add new one. It doesn't matter if you need to leave her in there for a week, they will feed her and she will be fine. Push in cages lose this safety aspect and bees can easily munch their way in to slaughter her if they feel inclined.

How true, if the bees want to get her they will, This is the cage I use. I put two gates on it, and when the aggression starts to subside I remove the tab to the small compartment which allows bees access to the queen but she can't get out. When things look ok I remove the other tab.
Btw the cage is placed on the top bars plastic slide down with a see through dish over it

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I have a queen I want to replace but due to work and other commitments I can only do this on Saturday. Most things I’ve read it says make queenless for 24 hours for best results. Some say a few hours is fine. So can I get away with getting to the apiary remove queen wait a few hours then use introduction cage with candy?

24 hours way too long - in fact, 24 minutes is too long. When I change queens the time between the old one hitting the gatepost and the new one being inserted is the time it takes me to walk to and back from where I safely put the queen on arrival at the apiary.

 

[SuperHoney]

How true, if the bees want to get her they will, This is the cage I use. I put two gates on it, and when the aggression starts to subside I remove the tab to the small compartment which allows bees access to the queen but she can't get out. When things look ok I remove the other tab.

Btw the cage is placed on the top bars plastic slide down with a see through dish over it

This is what I'm trialling, shake bees off frame, place cage over capped brood, put in the queen for 4-5days and they should have accepted her. Pretty tired of paying for queen's just to have them rejected.

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[Erichalfbee]

This is what I'm trialling, shake bees off frame, place cage over capped brood, put in the queen for 4-5days and they should have accepted her. Pretty tired of paying for queen's just to have them rejected.

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This is a plastic push in cage.
It needs to go over EMERGING brood not just capped.
The idea is that the queen has room to lay and the newly emerged bees accept her as their own.
In my experience you can't get these pushed into the mid rib and the bees simply tunnel in and kill the queen.
Don't waste your money and your next queen. If you want to try a push in then use one made of metal mesh

 

[thedozzer]

I have a queen I want to replace but due to work and other commitments I can only do this on Saturday. Most things I’ve read it says make queenless for 24 hours for best results. Some say a few hours is fine. So can I get away with getting to the apiary remove queen wait a few hours then use introduction cage with candy?

We have just done both our hives 2 weeks ago with GM queens, took the old queens out at the same time as putting the new ones in.
We used a push cage 100 x 150mm, made sure that they had some emerging brood in the cage with them, and some stores. one didn't have enough stores, so we added some fondant.

We left them in the cages for 4 days, then let them out once they looked happy with the new queens. both were greeted with antennae touching and licking.
The weaker hive accepted the new queen really quickly and was fatter and laying after a few days more. the stronger hive didn't show any signs of eggs or larvae on the next inspection and had drawn 7 emergency QC's.

We spoke to the supplier and he explained that with a good strong colony there is a possibility of "mild rejection" they just ignore her and its 50/50 if the will kill her or not, we inspected today, with a nuc to hand, just in case things were still bad, but she is much fatter and lots of eggs & larvae and no charged QC's so it looks like they have decided her pheromone is good enough.

Think this is why the suppliers recommend to introduce a new queen into a small nuc.

From this steep learning curve, would not introduce a new queen to a full summer colony again, and both hives were good natured and productive, the only reason we were changing was they swarmed at the first chance.

 

[Swarm]

This is what I'm trialling, shake bees off frame, place cage over capped brood, put in the queen for 4-5days and they should have accepted her. Pretty tired of paying for queen's just to have them rejected.[/QUOTE]

How many queens can you possibly have rejected in one season?

 

[Swarm]

We have just done both our hives 2 weeks ago with GM queens, took the old queens out at the same time as putting the new ones in.
We used a push cage 100 x 150mm, made sure that they had some emerging brood in the cage with them, and some stores. one didn't have enough stores, so we added some fondant.

We left them in the cages for 4 days, then let them out once they looked happy with the new queens. both were greeted with antennae touching and licking.
The weaker hive accepted the new queen really quickly and was fatter and laying after a few days more. the stronger hive didn't show any signs of eggs or larvae on the next inspection and had drawn 7 emergency QC's.

We spoke to the supplier and he explained that with a good strong colony there is a possibility of "mild rejection" they just ignore her and its 50/50 if the will kill her or not, we inspected today, with a nuc to hand, just in case things were still bad, but she is much fatter and lots of eggs & larvae and no charged QC's so it looks like they have decided her pheromone is good enough.

Think this is why the suppliers recommend to introduce a new queen into a small nuc.

From this steep learning curve, would not introduce a new queen to a full summer colony again, and both hives were good natured and productive, the only reason we were changing was they swarmed at the first chance.

It is indeed a steep learning curve and you've made a good decision. Some will utterly refuse new queens. Some will grudgingly accept her as their only chance of survival, they then kill her and bring on their own from her first cycle of laying.
These queen suppliers must be rubbing their hands.

 

[Show me the honey]

24 hours way too long - in fact, 24 minutes is too long. When I change queens the time between the old one hitting the gatepost and the new one being inserted is the time it takes me to walk to and back from where I safely put the queen on arrival at the apiary.

Nice thanks this is what I wanted to hear do you take attendants out?

 

[Parsonage Bees]

Also, what candy works to plug the introduction cage? Is baker's fondant OK or is it best to mix honey and icing sugar?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Nice thanks this is what I wanted to hear do you take attendants out?

Leave them in - every time

Also, what candy works to plug the introduction cage? Is baker's fondant OK or is it best to mix honey and icing sugar?

Fondant is OK, mixing your own gives you the luxury of having the consistency you want, a softer candy gets cleared quicker.

 

[Parsonage Bees]

Great, thanks.