Method for combining a Nuc with a queenless hive.

[beenovice]

Hi all, I am after a method of uniting a Nuc with a queenless hive. There is a floor in the Nuc so I can't place it on top. Do I need to transfer the Nuc into a brood first and combine the two brood boxes.
There is room in the hive to fit the frames of the Nuc. Is there any way of uniting side by side as it were?
Alternatively, could the hive go on top of the Nuc with some sort of closure board?
I'm on nationals by the way.

 

[NoBBy]

Use the News paper method. Take the roof and the crown board and any supers off the queenless hive. Put news paper over the brood box and put a queen excluder on top of the News paper. Then put a spare brood box on top and put all the frames from the nuc and then shake all the bees' in it. use a 2 dummy boards either side of those nuc frames. Close the hive and come back tomorrow and they should have eaten the news paper. Then put all the nuc frame with brood and all the bees' in the bottom box, job done.

 

[beenovice]

Use the News paper method. Take the roof and the crown board and any supers off the queenless hive. Put news paper over the brood box and put a queen excluder on top of the News paper. Then put a spare brood box on top and put all the frames from the nuc and then shake all the bees' in it. use a 2 dummy boards either side of those nuc frames. Close the hive and come back tomorrow and they should have eaten the news paper. Then put all the nuc frame with brood and all the bees' in the bottom box, job done.

Do I leave the supers off for the duration of the unite. Obviously the supers have lots of bees in them that belong to the queenless hive?

 

[Erichalfbee]

No. Put the the nuc in a brood box and put newspaper over that. Then the queen-less hive and supers. I have done that already this year. Amalgamate the brood boxes in three days or so. Don't forget to dummy down each brood box so the frames you are uniting are opposite each other.

 

[Oscarmonster]

Isn't it possible to simple take out frames from the hive and insert the nuc frames?

 

[Erichalfbee]

No. The bees would fight and the queen might be among the casualties

 

[Oscarmonster]

No. The bees would fight and the queen might be among the casualties

I understood brother Adam used to do it. Was someone here did it too. Sprayed with sugar syrup then just put them in together.

 

[domino]

I understood brother Adam used to do it. Was someone here did it too. Sprayed with sugar syrup then just put them in together.

In his book he said he simply took them out of one hive, exposed them to light then put them in the other. He was rather dismissive of the importance of hive odour.

 

[Oscarmonster]

In his book he said he simply took them out of one hive, exposed them to light then put them in the other. He was rather dismissive of the importance of hive odour.

Ah yes, that's what I understood.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I understood brother Adam used to do it. Was someone here did it too. Sprayed with sugar syrup then just put them in together.

If you are willing to take the risk fair enufski - I think I'd rather stick to the newspaper method. I don't have as many spare queens lying around as the good brother did!

 

[alldigging]

http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/newspaperbag.html

this reckons you could make each frame a newspaper bag. Not quite convinced it's as easy as it says.

 

[Oscarmonster]

I'm planning on giving it a go. Trying these things out is half the fun isn't it.

That newspaper bag method looks like a pain, trying to keep it simples.

 

[alldigging]

I'm planning on giving it a go. Trying these things out is half the fun isn't it.

Will be interesting to know how you get on!

 

[Oscarmonster]

Just waiting on a few matings.

 

[Teemore]

When it comes to uniting, put your Q+ Nuc in a new brood box and unite the Q- colony onto it over paper as recommended earlier in the thread.

It is easier to incorporate/unite bees from three stocks than it is from two. I make up Nucs by taking a single frame of Emerging brood and adhering bees from three different hives. The mix appears to result in no fighting amongst the bees. There have been discussions about this on the forum in the past.

 

[Leigh]

spraying both stocks with sugar water and bunging them in together, frames all over the place works, especially if three or four stocks/sources/casts/swarms etc. For extra safety put the queen you want to keep in a cage for a few days so the new-comers don't bump her off. If combining swarms/casts, ideally hunt out the spare queens and get them to a nuc/mating hive. I've combined several like this this season, with good effect, no fighting. One of note, was one good swarm and two good sized casts. I gambled (got away with it) and put a QE on the floor for a couple of days whilst the queens had their fights. The resulting colony drew a 14x12 BB and a super of foundation out in 2 days, and had a full super within the week. Way to go! If you are collecting a number of small to medium sized swarms, this gives you strong stocks for immediate honey gathering rather than nurturing loads of stocks for "next season". There is a theoretical risk of disease, as with any unknown swarm use...keep them all in a separate apiary to be certain. I won't collect swarms from any areas that have had EFB or AFB in them....far less worry involved!

 

[bontbee]

I have united a Q+ nuc with a resident Q- colony several times. It's a bit time consuming and a bit sticky, but it works a treat.

I open the Q- colony and remove enough combs to make space for the nuc frames, shaking any bees on them back into the hive. I spray every frame in the Q- colony with thin sugar syrup - and any bees not back on the comb. I treat the frames from the nuc the same, and yes, I do spray the queen with a gentle mist. The two colonies merge without any fuss at all, no spare kit needed, and an empty nuc box to take away for re-use.

Oops, sorry, I obviously missed page 2 of this thread before I added my two penn'orth

 

[Erichalfbee]

In his book he said he simply took them out of one hive, exposed them to light then put them in the other. He was rather dismissive of the importance of hive odour.

I have actually added two frames of emerging brood, spare after a combine, to a weak nuc this very way. Left the frames out for five minutes to let the flying bees fly off leaving only the nurse bees. There were a few dead bees on the floor afterwards but nothing really significant and queen was OK.

 

[Mart_got_hives]

I understood brother Adam used to do it. Was someone here did it too. Sprayed with sugar syrup then just put them in together.

I've done this. I used 1:1 syrup with a few drops of peppermint essential oil (use a hand blender to mix it properly), sprayed both sides of each frame with it and interleaved the frames. Had no problems, as far as I could tell.
David A. Cushman's site mentions using a bottle of water with a fox's glacier mint dissolved in it for the same purpose.

 

[REDWOOD]

There are other ways that work involving fragrance concealed in a pressurised can