Mean green queen saga continues

[Obee1]

Sorry I didn't realise it had been an on going problem. Even so the bees might not have been happy with the queen in April.

I have an agressive colony to deal with tomorrow, moved the entrance block on Monday and they all came out onto the front of the brood box.If there's a queen in there she won't be tomorrow night.

When we went through my colony with bee inspector we took most of it away just leaving a double brood box set up at site for foragers. - all strapped up ready to close up and heft away at night. However when I went back with OH to collect, the strap was in way of entrance and there was a huge beard of bees outside. They went ballistic and boiled out so I couldn't seal em in. Good old bee inspector solved that one too - use a water spray at entrance. The beard dashed inside thinking its raining. Then managed to push foam in with pointed end of scissors. Picked em up and moved em.

I love my bee inspector

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Me too! Sorry mostly that I came within a whisker of having em up and running with petes new queen. That bugs me more than the financial cost!
Also really lucky to have access to bee inspector as I'm doing a beekeeping course with her. Without her and her hubby I'd have had to kill the colony.[/QUOTE]

Ah, here we go again - disposable beekeeping!

 

[B+.]

Ah, here we go again - disposable beekeeping!

I think thats a bit unfair JBM. Obee1 had a problem and she dealt with it the only way she could.
I think those of us with out apiaries are lucky to have the space so that we can take time to fix a problem. If you don't have the space, everything can be an emergency

 

[Tremyfro]

Me too! Sorry mostly that I came within a whisker of having em up and running with petes new queen. That bugs me more than the financial cost!
Also really lucky to have access to bee inspector as I'm doing a beekeeping course with her. Without her and her hubby I'd have had to kill the colony.[/QUOTE]

Ah, here we go again - disposable beekeeping!

I think that is rather a harsh statement....Obee1 has worked around this very aggressive hive all year. She has made mistakes....I would not judge her on that....under normal circumstances...all would have gone to plan and the hive would have had a new Petes queen. For the rest of us new beekeepers...it has been of immense help that she has posted the story of this colony ...without disguising her mistakes and taking full responsibility. I,for one, would have been demoralised by such an experience. She was well aware that they had become a public nuisance and a danger. She asked for help from the very best of beekeepers and they have helped her to resolve the issues with this colony. I know that tears were shed over how to manage to remove them from the site without endangering the public. I certainly don't think for one moment that disposable beekeeping was on her mind....only how to keep everyone safe. She has over the last few months taken more than her fair share of stings...if she isn't immune now it would be a miracle!
Obee1 should be applauded for seeing this through to the bitter end.
She had almost cracked it....but the bees were too quick making a new queen for themselves.
At the same time as she was doing all of this...I was introducing new queens to some of my hives...not because they were aggressive but because I wanted all Carniolans in my colonies. I followed virtually the same manipulations..I had a Q- Nuc and a colony which I took the queen out of.....the queens went in....no problems....it could have been the same for Obee1 ...I think she was just unlucky.
Of one thing I am sure.....she doesn't deserve to be made to feel bad for contemplating ...'disposable beekeeping'.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I agree she did see it through, but there's never an excuse to pour petrol on a colony just for (and it's what it boils down to) convenience - we've been through it all on here before - when you 've gained a little bit of experience and knowledge you may be in a better position to comment.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I think thats a bit unfair JBM. Obee1 had a problem and she dealt with it the only way she could.

Not unfair at all - she dealt with it properly and responsibly albeit there were a few hiccups on the way. But someone must have mentioned petrol to her. I have a right to my opinion, and it's sad nowadays (as I said, we've seen it on more than one occasion on here) that the thought of ESSO's finest crops up at the drop of a hat rather than gritting one's teeth and resolving the issue.
Flooding the area with Carnies doesn't help either.

 

[B+.]

when you 've gained a little bit of experience and knowledge you may be in a better position to comment.

Ouch! That was harsh too. Has something upset you today?

 

[B+.]

someone must have mentioned petrol to her. I have a right to my opinion, and it's sad nowadays (as I said, we've seen it on more than one occasion on here) that the thought of ESSO's finest crops up at the drop of a hat rather than gritting one's teeth and resolving the issue.
Flooding the area with Carnies doesn't help either.

I don't think she even mentioned petrol.
I think you have to recognise that her sbi was on the spot and was advising her. We're only responding to what she has told us after the event.
I think the value in what she has said is not so much asking for advice but documenting the journey she has been on as a warning and a guide to new beekeepers.
I don't understand why you object to her having a few Carniolans to go alongside her Buckfasts.

 

[The Drone Ranger]

Hi Obee1
Like the name by the way I only just twigged Obi-Wan Kenobi

A few years ago I drove about 40 miles to my friend Gails house to deliver her first ever beehive and get her started beekeeping.
In the back of the car I had a full size colony of pretty nice bees
On arrival after a quick cup of tea we had the hive on its stand ,the crownboard was off and Gail spotted the queen before me
All was well ,the bees were very docile, and it was the end of July so past the swarming peak of the year.
They overwintered well and were a pleasure to handle the next Spring
But as these things go, in late May, she lost a prime swarm (Bad long range mentoring Lol!) anyway the queen cells were reduced and a new queen was duly mated.
When the new brood started hatching the temper began to deteriorate and it got so bad she dreaded going near them.
I took a trip up with a replacement queen and after a battle I managed (just) to find the mother of demons who was then put to death by me Ming the Merciless (actually I lost sleep over it)
Anyway the local drones are the reason it all went so horribly wrong
A replacement queen fixed the issue but she will always have the possibility that if she loses another queen then the next generation will be back to nightmare on elm street
The vicious ones often make big colonies plus they always seem harder to re-queen
Don't be put off you have seen the worst and survived the experience It can only get easier now

 

[Cussword]

I don't understand why you object to her having a few Carniolans to go alongside her Buckfasts.

I think the carnies he's talking about are Tremyfro's

 

[Tremyfro]

Not unfair at all - she dealt with it properly and responsibly albeit there were a few hiccups on the way. But someone must have mentioned petrol to her. I have a right to my opinion, and it's sad nowadays (as I said, we've seen it on more than one occasion on here) that the thought of ESSO's finest crops up at the drop of a hat rather than gritting one's teeth and resolving the issue.
Flooding the area with Carnies doesn't help either.

You do have a right to an opinion...just not at the expense of hurting others. I don't think that there was any mention of petrol...and a very unlikely way of disposing of bees in the middle of town. I think Obee1 ...gritted her teeth far longer than many beekeepers would have done. Perhaps congratulation at a job seen through to the end would have been kinder than picking apart her comments.
If the comment about Carniolans was aimed at me....it is true...I think they are lovely bees. I have to say their behaviour far outstrips the local bees. For a beginner in beekeeping...handling a colony...all be it ....a large colony...of bees which stay on the comb, don't fly up in your face and don't require smoke at all....well ...I am happy to go with that. So far...I have been lucky and having nice bees has helped enormously.
I started beekeeping last year with a full colony of Carniolans and a Nuc of local bees. I still have the local bees...though they are often under threat of requeening....they always seem to redeem themselves. Having seen the bees some people keep and to experience standing near their hives.....I begin to think my local bees are fairly docile! But they cannot be compared with the Carniolans...which are consistently totally lovely.

 

[Obee1]

Not unfair at all - she dealt with it properly and responsibly albeit there were a few hiccups on the way. But someone must have mentioned petrol to her. I have a right to my opinion, and it's sad nowadays (as I said, we've seen it on more than one occasion on here) that the thought of ESSO's finest crops up at the drop of a hat rather than gritting one's teeth and resolving the issue.
Flooding the area with Carnies doesn't help either.

Actually jbm it was the bee inspectors opinion that killing the colony might be the only option. Fortunately between us we managed a better solution.

 

[Obee1]

I agree she did see it through, but there's never an excuse to pour petrol on a colony just for (and it's what it boils down to) convenience - we've been through it all on here before - when you 've gained a little bit of experience and knowledge you may be in a better position to comment.

This was nothing to do with convenience. I sourced a small holding in the countryside belonging to a guy claiming to be a trained beekeeper. He was told about the bees temperament in advance. When after 24 hours he demanded their immediate removal I had nowhere to put them. I have never minded dealing with them myself, but do not want other people to be stung. Killing them would have been a very last resort as no one could take them immediately. I worked hard to sort the problem - and perhaps it would have not been such a problem had you mentioned when you offered your advice and told me to only leave them one hour queenless before adding petes queen, that they would still need checking for EQC's - being a newbie I didn't know that bit.

 

[Fatbee]

Sounds pretty bad luck to me and a little puzzling that she was killed so long after the unite. Will make me think about checking for EQCs on future unites - newspaper has worked to date for me.

I wouldn't ever consider a garden apiary - hidden away in fields takes the stress out of when hives turn nasty.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I don't think that there was any mention of petrol...and a very unlikely way of disposing of bees in the middle of town.

Really - you familiar with this method of killing a colony of bees then? Obviously not - it's the preferred/recommended method of 'disposing' of a colony whether in town or country. How else do you suppose it's done? catch each bee and give it an overdose of anaesthetic?

perhaps it would have not been such a problem had you mentioned when you offered your advice and told me to only leave them one hour queenless before adding petes queen, that they would still need checking for EQC's - being a newbie I didn't know that bit.

Very selective memory you have, or you would remember that you ignored half my advice - I said to leave them one hour Q- then introduce the new queen In an introduction cage i've never discussed changing a queen using a paper unite. it was your mistake, no big deal, could happen to anyone, no need to blame someone else.
As for 'disposing' of the colony, my opinion still stands, killing the colony just because they're a nuisance is never the answer (and I shall be discussing this with Dinah when I see her in a couple of weeks) but on the flip side, i know you worked hard to find a sensible and rational resolution, that is why I was disappointed to hear the word 'dispose' mentioned

 

[Tom Bick]

Been through the mill with this one Obee1 hope you are through the other end.

It's not talked about enough when bees turn bad and dangerous especially in an urban environment and an eye opener as some people simply have no idea just how bad it can get. In an urban environment it's hard but it is possible that the decision may have to be made that the colony should be killed if no plan B is available as someone can be seriously hurt. One thing you can take is you have learnt a great deal and will benefit from it in the future. I have sorted out an aggressive hive this year, doubt as bad as your hive but on a couple of occasions invited people along to get an idea what can happen but on each occasion to busy and it's their loss as it would have been good education. Onwards and upwards and hoping you don't experience a hive like this for some time to come..

 

[Obee1]

Jbm I'm not blaming anyone else. My bees, my mistake - if indeed they did raise a virgin - I doubt we'll ever know (but I do have petes queen saved in the freezer!) my problem.
As a matter of interest what would your solution have been. The guy with the small holding demanded them gone. What if you have no immediate place to put them? I racked my brains. If I hadn't found someone that day what else is there?

Btw it has been very traumatic so attacking me for an action I did not even end up taking seems harsh

 

[JWF]

You have my thanks for sharing the trials and tribulations, Obee1

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Btw it has been very traumatic so attacking me for an action I did not even end up taking seems harsh

I never attacked you for that (or the statement) and I'm sorry if that's the way it came across. as usual it was others who pounced and decided to make an issue. I just stated my disappointment that the disposing of bees again was mentioned.
In your case it was very unfortunate that your plan B was pulled from under your feet at the last moment. Hard to say what I would do as my circumstances are pretty different. although i do have an very agressive colony at one of my out apiaries - It's far enough away to only be a nuisance to me, I've left them to their own devices and they are beginning to settle down - queen now gone. We have moved two to the association apiary this year to help out members with agressive bee problems, I've also re-queened one member's aggressive colony.
There are ways and means - and that is one reason why being a mamber of an association is handy.

 

[Thymallus]

Really - you familiar with this method of killing a colony of bees then? Obviously not - it's the preferred/recommended method of 'disposing' of a colony whether in town or country. How else do you suppose it's done? catch each bee and give it an overdose of anaesthetic?

Those pyrethoid smokers are quite effective as are the various powders (unavailable to us) the pest controllers use to destroy colonies of bees in places that are untenable for those who end up with colonies in the wrong place.
I agree one should go to great lengths to avoid destroying a potentially useful colony of bees, but there are times when you have to bite the bullet. One of my saddest killings was a colony stuck in a chimney of a neighbor who had to give up keeping bees due to anaphylactic (?) shock. They weren't compatible under the same roof.....and no you couldn't light a fire and smoke them out due to a gas line and gas fire blocking the original fire. Although I did try with my smoker for a few hours to no effect.
Miserable sod never even reimbursed for the smoke bomb, she was just pleased she hadn't had to pay anyone and then moaned a bucket that her living room stank of smoke from me trying to save them.