Mann Lake "Hybrid National"

[itma]

Anyone handled one yet?

AFAIK the thing has a "national" 18" (460mm) square footprint, but from there on, its different.
My understanding is that it takes 'standard' US-Langstroth (medium-depth?) foundation (eg the plastic stuff), in frames that aren't quite Langstroth. They simply couldn't be as the Lang frame topbar is 19" long - which is bigger than the hive footprint!
So how is this magic achieved?
Lang foundation is 425mm wide (says Thorne website). Allow just 15mm for beespace, total both sides, making at least 440mm internal box width. Which only leaves 10mm each side for lug length and side wall - and assumes that the frame sidebar adds nothing at all to the width of the foundation.

I'm not bothered about the depth of the box being non-standard to suit the different frame depth.
But what I don't quite understand is - how can that width of foundation be shoe-horned into such a relatively narrow box? Does it have ultra short frame lugs? And slotted frame sidebars?

Anyone care to share their ideas of what is going on?

 

[Hivemaker.]

Anyone care to share their ideas of what is going on?

Tardis technology springs to mind.

 

[alanf]

Saturday at Stoneleigh probably the first chance for most to handle without having to buy.

 

[B+.]

Anyone care to share their ideas of what is going on?

Judging from the amount of discussion on this forum, all Mann Lake have done is to generate a lot of confusion and discontentment.

 

[wessexmario]

maybe being an american firm they're geared up to produce langstroth foundation, so have come up with a 'clever' way to supply national format boxes that fits their supply chain, sounds like a right bodge to me.

 

[wessexmario]

and we all know the problem with "hybrids", you never get what you expect with the next generation...

 

[itma]

Saturday at Stoneleigh probably the first chance for most to handle without having to buy.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I'm waiting too

 

[madasafish]

Saturday at Stoneleigh probably the first chance for most to handle without having to buy.

They had lots of hybrid bits there..when I arrived c 9.30am and when I left at 12.30pm, the piles of them did not appear to have moved much.

They don't sell Jumbo langs of any shape (frames, foundation or boxes) so no interest to me..

 

[clv101]

...Mann Lake have done is to generate a lot of confusion and discontentment.

Indeed, I think it is a really rubbish idea to bring yet another format to the market. There's just no need. This box can't be 'better' than the many different boxes already available.

 

[MuswellMetro]

well I was not impressed, heavy pine short lugged national footprint boxes, with ilangstroth depth plastic foundation

it all about using their plastic foundation

no advantage over the National Commercial format and was mystified by the flat runners

parkbeekeeomg had prewire frames that looked interesting though their metal clad poly roofs were ventilated so i think would loose too much heat

 

[itma]

well I was not impressed, heavy pine short lugged national footprint boxes, with ilangstroth depth plastic foundation

it all about using their plastic foundation

no advantage over the National Commercial format and was mystified by the flat runners
...

So, the foundation is some sort of Langstroth depth, but not width?

I'm afraid I'm struggling to see any point - for them or us.

 

[DrLewis]

If it does not maintain the dimensions of the British Standard it is not a National.
The point of the standard is that the parts are standardized and that any manufactures BS frames will fit in the corresponding hive.

Probably going to lead to confusion with new bee keepers.

It is possible to manufacture less complicated hive boxes that can still accommodate BS frames.

 

[pargyle]

Probably going to lead to confusion with new bee keepers.

As if there wasn't enough confusion for new beekeepers over size/type of hives/frames/lugs/top bee space/bottom bee space, frame spacing, frame classifications etc. etc.

It's one of the things that I think most new beekeepers suffer with ... just one more to add to the confusion.

 

[Erichalfbee]

As if there wasn't enough confusion for new beekeepers o
It's one of the things that I think most new beekeepers suffer with ... just one more to add to the confusion.

Only if they read posts here, I suspect.
Most will go with the local flow

 

[pargyle]

Only if they read posts here, I suspect.
Most will go with the local flow

Well ... It was one of the questions that came up when I did the course a few years ago and virtually everyone on the course had some level of confusion... and whilst some 'went with the flow' quite a few went away more confused than before !!

But ... you are right .. those that try to learn a bit and read a bit beforehand are usually those that are the most confused. There's a lot to be said for just following someone else's ideas - but I'm not sure that it leads to a better beekeeper though .... and picking the right person to follow is not easy when you are starting out !

 

[itma]

well I was not impressed, heavy pine short lugged national footprint boxes, with ilangstroth depth plastic foundation

it all about using their plastic foundation

no advantage over the National Commercial format and was mystified by the flat runners

What really surprises me is that as well as 2 "langstroth" sizes, their catalogue lists their plastic foundation in National deep and shallow sizes AND two of these additional "hybrid" sizes.
Its not that they don't offer standard-National-size plastic foundation. They do!

I have to agree that Commercial/16x10 would have been a much more rational third size in which to offer their plastic foundation.
And they might thereby have picked up interest from the sort of pro beekeepers that might be interested in a "low maintenance, fast extraction" idea.

I'm afraid I'm struggling to see any point - for them or us.

Only thing I can come up with is to achieve "customer lock-in" - they are the only source of that format, so anyone that perseveres with it HAS to buy from them.
I don't think its going to happen.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Only thing I can come up with is to achieve "customer lock-in" - they are the only source of that format, so anyone that perseveres with it HAS to buy from them.
I don't think its going to happen.

I agree that it seems pretty pointless and is unlikely to happen to any great extent, but no need to be locked into buying only from them, made of timber, so anyone could easily manufacture them.

 

[itma]

I agree that it seems pretty pointless and is unlikely to happen to any great extent, but no need to be locked into buying only from them, made of timber, so anyone could easily manufacture them.

Making the frames would be too much for most beekeepers.
And I don't expect any other manufacturers to rush to 'adopt' the format.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Making the frames would be too much for most beekeepers.

If the demand was there...then that would be simple, no problem at all, but i don't think there will be the demand...time will tell.