Lost colony

[jenkinsbrynmair]

isolation starvation

 

[richardbees]

Must get a bit depressing when it is almost an action replay of last spring

HM - respect!

 

[drstitson]

QE; NO STORES; MATCHSTICKS.

Where has the forum gone wrong over the past year?

 

[Erichalfbee]

You can take a horse to water...............

 

[Chris B]

There is no mention of any brood being found.
Isolation starvation probably finished this colony off but root cause was probably something else. My money would be on queen failure and/or nosema. A colony wouldn't go from strong to very weak in such a short time if it had plenty of young bees in October, so something was already wrong at the back end of last season.

 

[Geohorn]

The set up this time was different to my first colony that died in feb. 2012.
As the colony swarmed in may I did everything possible to get them through the
Autumn. They were treated accordingly for Varoa and by November I had increased the ventilation by lifting the corners of the CB with matchsticks.
And I fed them fondant only three weeks ago. Looking at the amount of dead bees at the bottom of the hive in comparison to last year, I'd say there was less than halh the quantity this time. Checking through them yesterday I hadn't at that point seen the queen but that doesn't mean she's not there.
What do I do with the frames full of honey? And how should I tackle the cleaning operation?

 

[Pete D]

Hi mate sorry to hear of your loss, so early in the winter too.
Do you have a mentor or bee buddy and have you had any training etc
Preparation for winter starts in late summer, fondant feeding in November on your previous hive I sn't a good sign of them being prepared and ready.
Where have you been getting your bees from and when if they swarmed in May but didn't survive the winter ? Was there any brood.
I have some nucs that I am over wintering which by their description would be small but are housed in the right sized box with the right amount of food and insulation, I expect them all to survive, they were made up on first of august, treated mid September and oxalic applied early January.

How far are you from me

Clean your equipment, store it away and get some more bees and ensure you have some good guidance for over wintering, oh and matchsticks are good for spotting foul brood and lighting smokers, you don't need them for making draughts.
Good luck

 

[Chris B]

And for an outside bet - possibly they swarmed late September/early October. It happens. Found a swarm in a tree at one of my apiaries in late October once.

 

[user 6228]

i know there is an enclave of matchstick users in the Cambridge area.

If you want a scientific discussion on the effects of matchsticks at your local association...
it can be arranged

 

[Geohorn]

Hi Pete. I'm just outside Cambridge which is around 45 miles from you.
Do you think they may have swarmed again during the autumn ? Is that a possibility?
There's no sign of them having dissentry as the inside of the hive was clean an dry.

 

[oliver90owner]

... different to my first colony that died in feb. 2012.

The plot thickens.

First we have a dead-out this year.
Then we have Hivemaker referencing last year being much the same.
Now we have the OP writing the above - in Feb 2012!

I, like HM perhaps, am thinking the outside bets are likely off, especially if it is three in a row.

RAB

 

[Pete D]

Hi geohorn, I see you got these bees in February after the previous colony had died same month and then relocated them to Cambridge. Were they a full over wintered colony or nuc, and did you clean the hive well before you installed them, I assume you didn't move the frames in February when you got them so probably bought them including hive or nuc box and either left them in it or transferred them at a later date.
I also note that you had no brood after your autumn thymol treatment, although many of us were probably the same at that stage. Did you ever see brood again.
As Chris has suggested they may of swarmed late but they had already done in May so probably not, but not ruled out.
Sometimes a hive full of busy anxious bees can seem like it's stuffed full to a relatively new beekeeper when in fact it's half empty.
Also as Chris said to go from a big hive in October with 20 kg of stores, + fondant added in December to nothing now is unusual. So either they were not so big and the queen was duff and they just fizzled out, they were big and ate themselves out of house and home, food in their direct vicinity that is or maybe your oxalic was dodgy or applied wrongly and it killed many of them or as others have said maybe nosema, but you have said hive was clean.

So when was the last time you saw a good worker brood pattern.
Was there any brood of any stage / type when you found them dead
Were all frames drawn out in brood box.
Foul brood ? Nosema, get some tested.
What has your mentor said maybe the problem.
Where did you get your oxalic and how did you apply it, dose size ?

All just my opinions of course any you will get many more.

Cheers

 

[mbc]

Weak colony + nosema + oxalic = death.

For future reference.

The large drop after oxalic also asks questions of the autumn treatment, any details on this ?

 

[Chris B]

from last September (bold added by me).....

I took my Apiguard off two days ago and on Sunday just gone I did a full inspection. I didn’t see ANY brood but I have 6 full frames of honey mainly capped and some pollen in the centre. I have the largest amount of bees I have seen since starting last year too and last night I witnessed yet another group of young bees taking flight for their first time. There was huge activity outside the entrance and bees flying figure of 8 straight up!!

Not conclusive but that might have been swarming or a queen mating flight. Swarming twice in a season is a rarity but possible - they weren't Carniolans were they?

 

[Erichalfbee]

... different to my first colony that died in feb. 2012.


Now we have the OP writing the above - in Feb 2012!

RAB

That may be but I just signed a form at my dentist and dated it 2013....maybe it was the stress.
Perhaps the OP is still in 2013?

 

[Moggett]

If this is three (?) years in a row the OP is getting something wrong I'd suggest! Most of us get nucs through winter without any problems - and without the aid of matchsticks!

I would, like others have said, suggest that the OP gets a mentor to help prepare for next winter. There's no shame in asking for advice, and I'm sure someone would be happy to help.

Worth also bearing in mind that there may be other reasons which have built up over the summer, and once the winter comes they are unable to cope due to to being weak.

 

[drstitson]

"by November I had increased the ventilation by lifting the corners of the CB with matchsticks."

on whose advice?
presuming you're on OMFs it won't've been reading on here!!!

 

[pargyle]

That may be but I just signed a form at my dentist and dated it 2013....maybe it was the stress.
Perhaps the OP is still in 2013?

You are right ... I looked back at the previous posts (See Post#19) and it was February 2013 that his last bees were found dead ... so, unless he had bees in 2011 then these were his first bees ... so it's only happened twice (Which is enough !).

Poor bloke ... there are so many variables in the OP's beekeeping that it really needs a practised eye and some testing on the deadout to make any sense of what has happened - perhaps with some very specific questions for the Geo.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Yes, some decent one-to-one help is required here. It's invaluable. I wouldn't have got through my first winter unscathed without the help of the wonderful Julia from my first BKA in Cumbria. She was there on the phone and in person when I needed her.

 

[pargyle]

"by November I had increased the ventilation by lifting the corners of the CB with matchsticks."

on whose advice?
presuming you're on OMFs it won't've been reading on here!!!

Sadly, looks as though the OP only arrives back on the forum when it's too late ...

If he had been reading the forum threads for the last couple of years he would not be making the mistakes that have clearly been made ...

As a new beekeeper I have found more relevant and helpful advice on here than in any of the numerous books I've read ... and what is more, the answers (varied and conflicting though they may be) to problems, I hope never to face, are an insight into real beekeeping that you just don't get anywhere else.

It's also a forum that makes you think about your beekeeping - not just accept what 'someone' says. I've come to realise over the last couple of years that not all 'experienced' beekeepers actually know what they are doing ... and some of the 'advice' offered to me has been erroneous and ill-founded at times.