Is this Nuc Queenless?

[elainemary]

Hi, I have a Nuc that I think is queen less, advice welcome please based on situation below:

-Made Nuc with a frame with 2 unsealed emergency cells end July
-First queen emerged 1 Aug (2nd cell was in process of emerging but bees holding back)
-Left them to it
-Added test frame of a patch of eggs on 15 Aug (know this was a bit early but conscious getting later in season)
-Eggs on Test frame turned out to be drone brood, but they started to draw a queen cell from one of these cells
-Added another test frame on 20 Aug, with eggs, young larvae & sealed worker brood. This time no queen cells made, took down the drone brood 'queen cell' down in case this was influencing
-No sign of a laying queen, no eggs in Nuc at next inspection
-Added final test frame on 31 Aug with eggs, young larvae
-Checked test frame this morning (4 days later) & no queen cells

There is no sign of a laying queen, either worker or drone layer; behaviour wise they are not as quiet as I would expect a queen right nuc to be. Yet, if they are queen less why aren't they making emergency queen cells (except on the first drone egg comb)?

Could this be down to the fact that drones in other hives are being thrown out, so they think it's now too late to make a queen?
Or, do you think this all suggests there is a queen? If so, as she emerged 1 Aug it's odd & she's not laying eggs of any type (drone or worker). I've looked v carefully & successfully found 11 other new queens this season

I have a queenright Nuc that needs bolstering, that I could unite this to, but don't want any harm to come to the good queen in this Nuc

Thoughts / advice please
Elaine

 

[Swarm]

I have a nuc to inspect shortly for signs of a laying queen, it's a similar situation. They have happily ignored test frames and I was considering shaking them out but the situation arose that I had some frames so they could have one last try. We had dreadful weather and I left them to it until the first fine day, when I saw a little black queen walking the frames. August 24th would be the latest she emerged (which was only a couple of days before) so closed up.
Now she is either a new queen or possibly an unmated queen that has been present all this time?
It's possible you have a small queen you are missing. This lot have had no sign of laying workers so I'm half expecting that little queen I have to be a dud. As I said, it was due to be shaken out but now I have to give her a chance just in case.
In your case, unless I saw her, I would shake out.

 

[madasafish]

Look for polished cell bottoms. If you find some - they shine in sunlight- then odds are you have a (very?) small queen.
Just come from trying to find one in a twin brood national - cold and windy no flying bees. Bees calm, polished cells but could not find queen.
Rescheduled for warmer next week - if cannot find her, colony likely doomed due to onset of colder weather...

 

[Beersinthegarden]

I had a late nuc made up 31st of July inspected Friday approx 30+ days after split - nothing no eggs or sign of a queen but not acting Q-less I gave them some food as have read this can help get the queen laying, closed them up was considering ordering a queen or reuniting them. I checked today and is now full of eggs and larvae.

 

[ericbeaumont]

I gave them some food as have read this can help get the queen laying

Good point.

 

[elainemary]

I had a late nuc made up 31st of July inspected Friday approx 30+ days after split - nothing no eggs or sign of a queen but not acting Q-less I gave them some food as have read this can help get the queen laying, closed them up was considering ordering a queen or reuniting them. I checked today and is now full of eggs and larvae.

Thanks I gave them some food on Monday when I put the final test frame in, have lots of stores now. Will give a few more days and check again for a small queen

 

[elainemary]

Look for polished cell bottoms. If you find some - they shine in sunlight- then odds are you have a (very?) small queen.
Just come from trying to find one in a twin brood national - cold and windy no flying bees. Bees calm, polished cells but could not find queen.
Rescheduled for warmer next week - if cannot find her, colony likely doomed due to onset of colder weather...

Thanks I will look again & focus on polished cells as well as looking for a small queen

 

[elainemary]

I have a nuc to inspect shortly for signs of a laying queen, it's a similar situation. They have happily ignored test frames and I was considering shaking them out but the situation arose that I had some frames so they could have one last try. We had dreadful weather and I left them to it until the first fine day, when I saw a little black queen walking the frames. August 24th would be the latest she emerged (which was only a couple of days before) so closed up.
Now she is either a new queen or possibly an unmated queen that has been present all this time?
It's possible you have a small queen you are missing. This lot have had no sign of laying workers so I'm half expecting that little queen I have to be a dud. As I said, it was due to be shaken out but now I have to give her a chance just in case.
In your case, unless I saw her, I would shake out.

Thanks I will have another look on the next warm day next week & see if I can spot her

 

[elainemary]

Look for polished cell bottoms. If you find some - they shine in sunlight- then odds are you have a (very?) small queen.
Just come from trying to find one in a twin brood national - cold and windy no flying bees. Bees calm, polished cells but could not find queen.
Rescheduled for warmer next week - if cannot find her, colony likely doomed due to onset of colder weather...

Thanks will look for polished cells

 

[Beersinthegarden]

I did have polished cells in mine prior to finding eggs or larvae