Is storing supers wet bad for your honey?

[pargyle]

Thank you
I found this about him by Wally Shaw

http://www.wbka.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/Insulated-Cover-Boards-by-Wally-Shaw.pdf

Well ... that explains a lot about some Hampshire beekeepers who, presumably, have inherited the wisdom ...

 

[hemo]

Ants, Earwigs or spiders aren't an issue, but slugs are a different story.

 

[Curly green finger's]

Glad to see some sense - over the last few years I've sensed a blinkered obsessiveness amongst hobby beekeepers, everything else can go to hell in a handcart as long as the bees get more than their fair share, an almost scorched earth policy where only the bees' welfare counts, whether it's ants, hornets (the native type) balsam or anything else.
A bit silly really.

Can we have wasps on that list to.

I've had ants above the crown board, I even moved a colony that had a paving slab then two chocks (4x2) then hive..

There was an ant nest reaching the omf floor loads of ants and soil, but the bees didn't really seem to mind. all stores intact and three fully capped supers.

There was no ants anywhere else in the hive.

I've not put any wasp traps out this year and won't be ever again.

 

[Antipodes]

As I don't use crown boards on my hives, there is no place in the hive ants can be without the bees getting at them. I've put frames/comb with ants on them into a hive, and the bees soon see them off, interesting to watch the way they deal with them. They definitely won't tolerate them.

Stored wet supers here are a different story with ants. If there is no moat, the supers aren't wet for long! I guess it is one way to clean up the honey in them ....and get some decent ant nests along the way. Here are some moats...just water at this stage.

 

[The Poot in Somerset]

Which begs another question. Do you get lots of wasps and bees trying to get into supers on top of hives? I must say I have never had anything investigate my super stacks and they are only feet away from a wild honey bee nest.

Yes is the short answer.
My (small) stack of wet and uncapped supers is in my garage and I have killed scores of wasps investigating things.
They all eventually fly into the window at the same spot - bottom left and there they are squished.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Can we have wasps on that list to.

Yes, I meant to. Wasp nests are left alone unless a positive nuisance/hazard no traps, apart from around SWMBO's office - she now gets pretty severe reactions to both wasp and bee stings so I have to accept them.
I do always have a tin or two of wasp foam handy just in case I'm contacted by someone regards a nest and I'm obliged as a favour - not very often though, People like Dai Bits and pieces about eight years ago - triple heart bypass patient who used to loan me his woodworking workshop and who found a massive wasp nest in one of his chicken coops, or the shooting range where I've been given a superb apiary and free range over 40 acres of wildflower uplands meadow when wasps built a nest in the shed where the muzzle loader boys cleaned their pieces.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Stored wet supers here are a different story with ants. If there is no moat, the supers aren't wet for long! I guess it is one way to clean up the honey in them ....and get some decent ant nests along the way.

Have you ever tried those fruit tree grease bands or would they eventually get clogged up with ants anyway

 

[janetbee]

I've always stored supers dry. I've heard that they're less susceptible to wax moth if stored wet but I've always been a bit concerned that residues of honey left open to the air will ferment in the frames. Anybody have any experience of this?

I am sceptical that wet supers are less susceptible to wax moth but it is stated in several places. Is this a case of one book/lecture copying those that have gone before?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I am sceptical that wet supers are less susceptible to wax moth but it is stated in several places. Is this a case of one book/lecture copying those that have gone before?

No - it's a proven fact
I've experienced it loads of times when I've had both wet and dry boxes, I've always stacked them separately, next to each other and the only ones to suffer from Waxmoth attack have been the dry ones.
Time and time again

 

[Erichalfbee]

I am sceptical that wet supers are less susceptible to wax moth but it is stated in several places. Is this a case of one book/lecture copying those that have gone before?

Works for me.
Perhaps there just isn’t any wax moth in Ceredigion

 

[Swarm]

Provided there's been no brood in the combs. If they have contained brood at some point, wet or dry won't make a difference.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I beg to differ

 

[Swarm]

I burnt the evidence but I can tell you they didn't care a monkeys that the combs were wet.
As you know, I've always stored supers wet and I still do. A few years ago I lost quite a few frames so started treating them. Not lost any in the years since I've been treating before storage.

 

[bobba]

Frank Vernon - he authored but one book - for the 'teach yourself' series, 'Teach yourself beekeeping'
A few steps up from a ladybird book really

Point taken, his credentials are not the greatest and methods outdated.

Like I said before my friend does not brag that she was trained by some master beekeeper or claim to be an expert herself. She was simply telling me what was taught to her and I thought someone may be curious as to where this idea from.

I still cannot get this old honey seeding new honey idea out of my head though. Most, if not all of you lot clearly think its nonsense, and normally that's enough to convince me. But not this time....

I am going to store a selection of this years honey and regularly inspect it, recording how long it takes to crystallize. If I am lucky enough to get honey again next year, I will repeat. Then I will compare the times and see if there is a significant difference.

If anyone is switching from dry to wet storage, then please copy my experiment and share the results.

I know there is a good chance the results will be inconclusive, but I think its worth a go.

And if any of you have switched dry/wet storage in the past, did you see any difference?

Regarding the ants, I had a problem with them going into a recently housed swarm and raiding the feeder. They were not going in the actual hive, but I was worried they might. But from what you lot say I don't need to worry about that.

 

[understanding_bees]

No - it's a proven fact
I've experienced it loads of times when I've had both wet and dry boxes, I've always stacked them separately, next to each other and the only ones to suffer from Waxmoth attack have been the dry ones.
Time and time again

This is an interesting comment - about wax moths attacking the DRY frames.
This comment raises a new question in my mind - do wax moths attack new foundation sheets which have never been in contact with brood or honey? Is it a good idea to fit foundation sheets to frame which will be stored before they are used? Would it be a better idea to only fit foundation sheets to the honey frames shortly before the frames will be placed in hives?

 

[North End Bees]

Do wax moths attack new foundation sheets which have never been in contact with brood or honey? Is it a good idea to fit foundation sheets to frame which will be stored before they are used? Would it be a better idea to only fit foundation sheets to the honey frames shortly before the frames will be placed in hives?

Dave Cushman recommended getting your frames made up over the winter. If you leave them all till you need them once the season starts, e.g say you notice the OSR is out, you'll have a mad rush. (Obviously depends on how many hives you have.)
Waxmoths won't be a problem but make sure you store them properly, ready in the supers is best. If you stack them in a box or store them somewhere warmish, they'll buckle.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I still cannot get this old honey seeding new honey idea out of my head though. Most, if not all of you lot clearly think its nonsense, and normally that's enough to convince me. But not this time....

But what you haven't grasped is that the bees clean out the old honey and thoroughly sanitise the cells before different bees put new nectar in it. If you understand that you can instantly see why wet supers don't matter a jot. They don't simply put new nectar into old honey. The supers are cleaned out after extraction or in the following spring in exactly the same way

 

[drdrday]

Is it a good idea to fit foundation sheets to frame which will be stored before they are used? Would it be a better idea to only fit foundation sheets to the honey frames shortly before the frames will be placed in hives?

I don't put foundation in my frames until I'm ready to use them. This isn't really with wax moth in mind but because I find it much easier to store empty frames without having to worry about damaging the foundation or it getting out of shape. I make up plenty of wooden frames in advance and just bundle them up with a bit of string and hang them in the shed until they're needed. Then when i need them it only takes a minute per frame to slide in the foundation and knock in a couple of pins.

 

[E&MBees]

I don't put foundation in my frames until I'm ready to use them. This isn't really with wax moth in mind but because I find it much easier to store empty frames without having to worry about damaging the foundation or it getting out of shape. I make up plenty of wooden frames in advance and just bundle them up with a bit of string and hang them in the shed until they're needed. Then when i need them it only takes a minute per frame to slide in the foundation and knock in a couple of pins.

That’s what I do. The wax stays indoors away from pests, while the frames are built and ready for foundation in the shed.

 

[North End Bees]

The wax stays indoors away from pests, while the frames are built and ready for foundation in the shed.

Yes, lots of ways of doing things. Having them ready to go works for me.
When I stack up the supers over winter, they've either got drawn frames or ready with foundation. Drawn ones stacked outside, foundation ones in the garage. Ratchet strapped together to keep out pests.
I like knowing I can just pick up a box and go without suddenly realising they're all empty frames which I'd thought I'd sorted.