Is storing supers wet bad for your honey?

[bobba]

I have a friend who kept bees many years ago. She says she was taught by some famous local keeper who authored several books. I forget the name of the "famous" keeper, If anyone cares I can ask her.

She says that she was taught that if you store supers wet, then when you put them back on, the old honey will get mixed with the new honey. She was taught that this seed your new your new honey and make it crystallize faster.

She also said letting the bees clean the super is their reward, and felt it an important part of bee husbandry. I am not so concerned about this point, they will get it in the spring. The sentiment of what she said struck a cord with me though, so I have mixed my capping honey with their syrup to give them a little treat.

She is not sure if crystallization thing is true or just an old wives tail, but she felt very strongly about giving bees their reward.

The crystallization thing has got me thinking, is there maybe some truth to it?

Has anyone else heard of the wet super/crystallization thing before?

Thanks as always.

 

[understanding_bees]

I have a friend who kept bees many years ago. She says she was taught by some famous local keeper who authored several books. I forget the name of the "famous" keeper, If anyone cares I can ask her.

She says that she was taught that if you store supers wet, then when you put them back on, the old honey will get mixed with the new honey. She was taught that this seed your new your new honey and make it crystallize faster.

She also said letting the bees clean the super is their reward, and felt it an important part of bee husbandry. I am not so concerned about this point, they will get it in the spring. The sentiment of what she said struck a cord with me though, so I have mixed my capping honey with their syrup to give them a little treat.

She is not sure if crystallization thing is true or just an old wives tail, but she felt very strongly about giving bees their reward.

The crystallization thing has got me thinking, is there maybe some truth to it?

Has anyone else heard of the wet super/crystallization thing before?

Thanks as always.

I decided to comment in response to your query because I am interested in knowing what possible benefit there may be to each of these approaches. I am all in favour of giving the honey frames back to the bees, for them to clean them up. After all, as you say, the bees made the honey in the first place. More than that, though, they can clean up the frames much more effectively than we can, and without wasting any of it.

You ask the question of whether the frames shall be given to the bees immediately after harvesting the honey, or in the following spring. I would opt for the first approach, immediately, because - (1) the frames would then be dry, clean, non-messy, and ready for storage – and (2) there would be no residual honey for any other pest to attack, consume, or contaminate during the period when the frames were stored.

Your fundamental question seems to be included in your comment, “The crystallization thing has got me thinking, is there maybe some truth to it?”

I cannot speak with authority here, but my knowledge of science suggests that the answer is “No”. Bees store nectar, and ripen it into honey, both of which are liquid, and not crystalline. When bees feed on stored honey, I understand that they may actually add water to it, so that they can feed on liquid honey. They are designed to feed on liquids, rather than solids. It is perfectly true that honey can crystallize, and some types crystallize more readily than others. It has been said that if honey crystallizes then you can know that it is pure, and not adulterated. It is also true that the way to encourage pure honey to crystallize is to “seed” it with tiny crystals, or in this case honey which has already crystallized.

Having said all that, the real question then becomes, “Do bees eat solid crystallized honey?” As I indicated, my understanding is that bees drink liquids, and probably add water if necessary to liquefy stored honey. If that is a correct understanding, then you do not need to worry about the honey crystallizing faster. If your honey crystallizes, then be happy with the knowledge that it is pure.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I have a friend who kept bees many years ago. She says she was taught by some famous local keeper who authored several books. I forget the name of the "famous" keeper, If anyone cares I can ask her.



She also said letting the bees clean the super is their reward, and felt it an important part of bee husbandry.

Oh please, let us know who it was
The reward bit made me chuckle.

I store mine wet though some invariably are dry, especially in years like this when you offer the bees a super, the weather turns and they just clean it up.
I have always considered it was the nectar source that governed whether a honey crystallised or not. I have no research just personal observation.
This year my first spring honey came from dry supers which were just on the top of the pile. It's dandelion honey and started setting within a fortnight.
Bees move honey (or syrup) from the brood box up into the supers. What effect on crystallisation would your friend consider that might have?

 

[GuyNir]

I store mine wet. Never had an issue. I find that in spring, bees go up to the supers quickly.
as running single brood, I provide supers a bit early (to provide space). Bees will clean the old honey first, before filling new.

 

[Newbeeneil]

Oh please, let us know who it was.......... oh Dani that's a bit unfair

The reward bit made me chuckle............ and there I was thinking you were an old romantic

I normally store dry but this year I'm trying both!

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

She also said letting the bees clean the super is their reward, and felt it an important part of bee husbandry.

Oh dear me, I think that statement says it all.
I've always stored supers wet - if they are still wet in the spring, within an hour or two the bees have cleaned all the remaining honey off and they are dry again, the honey neither crystalises quicker or slower than honey extracted from supers with brand new comb.
I think she's talking absolute nonsense and mentions a 'famous local beekeeper' as a way of trying to qualify her statement

 

[Erichalfbee]

Nothing wrong with an anthropomorphic attitude to your bees but it doesn’t make sense to attribute human values to their behaviour.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Oh dear me, I think that statement says it all.
I've always stored supers wet - if they are still wet in the spring, within an hour or two the bees have cleaned all the remaining honey off and they are dry again, the honey neither crystalises quicker or slower than honey extracted from supers with brand new comb.
I think she's talking absolute nonsense and mentions a 'famous local beekeeper' as a way of trying to qualify her statement

Yes. The bees don’t just deposit new honey on top of old. The younger bees clean the frames up and eat it. The slightly older bees responsible for filling them with nectar will then use the cleaned cells

 

[bobba]

" I think she's talking absolute nonsense and mentions a 'famous local beekeeper' as a way of trying to qualify her statement"

Sorry, from the way I presented the info its easy to think that.

I mentioned the fact that she got this info from a 'famous local beekeeper' because it was something I had never heard of before, so thought people may be interested in where it originated from. So its not something she is just bleating out qualify her statement.

Like me she does not know if the crystallization thing is true or just old wives tail, she is just telling me what she was taught back in the day. She is just trying to be helpful and pass on to me what she was taught.

I told her I will ask about it here and she is as curious as me as to what you lot think.

She does feel strongly about giving the bees a reward though.....

I will get the name of the guy that thought her, she has told me before but my brain is a sieve for names.

 

[bingevader]

I don't know about 'reward' as the honey was theirs to begin with.
We nadir the wet supers after extraction so the bees can store any leftovers for winter.
As always, I'll qualify this by saying that this is easy for us to do, as we only have a handful of hives, I'd imagine commercial beekeepers or those with scores of hives would find storage more suitable.

 

[masterBK]

One of the possible problems of storing the combs wet is that unless storage is done very securely the aroma of the honey can attract wasps and bees and before you know it your garden becomes full of them trying to gain access to the supers at this time of year.

 

[Erichalfbee]

One of the possible problems of storing the combs wet is that unless storage is done very securely the aroma of the honey can attract wasps and bees and before you know it your garden becomes full of them trying to gain access to the supers at this time of year.

Do commercial beekeepers get the bees to clean up the supers?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

One of the possible problems of storing the combs wet is that unless storage is done very securely the aroma of the honey can attract wasps and bees and before you know it your garden becomes full of them trying to gain access to the supers at this time of year.

Well I have over 2,000 frames that I store wet and I can't see I've noticed a plague of wasps nor around the stores

 

[masterBK]

Do commercial beekeepers get the bees to clean up the supers?

Probably not and also they don't tend to have nearby neighbours that would worry about lots of wasps and bees in the area.

 

[Speybee]

Oh dear me, I think that statement says it all.
I've always stored supers wet - if they are still wet in the spring, within an hour or two the bees have cleaned all the remaining honey off and they are dry again, the honey neither crystalises quicker or slower than honey extracted from supers with brand new comb.
I think she's talking absolute nonsense and mentions a 'famous local beekeeper' as a way of trying to qualify her statement

Last year I stored mine wet but left a few in an open cardboard box and a certain wee sausage dog disappeared into the garage to indulge her sweet tooth so far this year I stuck the extracted frames back into the hive for the bees to clean out and then placed into a national box covered in polythene.

 

[Speybee]

Probably not and also they don't tend to have nearby neighbours that would worry about lots of wasps and bees in the area.

I am certainly not a commercial bee keeper but a hobby beekeeper and this season I put the wet frames back on the hive for them to clean over a period of 3 days.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Probably not and also they don't tend to have nearby neighbours that would worry about lots of wasps and bees in the area.

Which begs another question. Do you get lots of wasps and bees trying to get into supers on top of hives? I must say I have never had anything investigate my super stacks and they are only feet away from a wild honey bee nest.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

a certain wee sausage dog disappeared into the garage to indulge her sweet tooth .

Yes, they do tend to like honey, mine are stright in to help me bottle or 'tidy up' any drops if I hadn't fastened the dog gate properly. Old George (in the picture) used to love his honey. But nothing tops the smallest one we have who is an expert at detecting swarms that have landed in the garden!

 

[Speybee]

My girl is a miniature dachshund and a greedier dog, I have yet to meet

 

[Antipodes]

You guys are lucky as I'm guessing the UK doesn't have a problem with ants, I'm not sure about the US or elsewhere, but I couldn't leave any honey anywhere (except if tightly sealed), inside or outside, without an ant moat. Perhaps it is because I am on sand, but yesterday, even after a frosty morning, the ants had found drips of honey and there were thousands of them in the garage getting stuck into it. The moats are painful to keep attending to and checking and I need to make more stands as the supers are starting to touch the ceiling.