Hived a caste swarm tonight... Any tips for keeping it?

[fred scuttle]

Hi folks, I got a call to attend to a swarm on the edge of a gatepost tonight and have put them in a Paynes polynuc with 4 frames of foundation and they seemed to be the most placid bees I've ever come across so would really like to over winter them if at all possible and breed Queens from them next year to calm some of my more tetchy hives down a bit.

Any tips for keeping these in the nuc and also how best to get themselves built up enough

They're on 4 frames of undrawn foundation at the moment though I'm going to put a frame of brood from one of my other best hives in tomorrow to give them something to focus on......

 

[REDWOOD]

A successfully mating of the queen will be your biggest hurdle.
Give them a frame of pollen and honey
Feed if necessary
Let the Gods be with you

 

[Into the lions den]

September swarmers?

Only bees I have met that are likely to do that (you can get odd freaks) are A.m.iberica.

If that is what you have found there I would strongly advise not to breed from them as its welcome to hell on the queen cells and swarming front.

If you can get it through the winter...and at this stage I would advise more than one frame of brood, preferably with a lot hatching, then I would keep them through next season to see what they behave like over the year. Only breed from them once they are proven.

If it IS something with a smattering of iberica in it you face a season long battle against swarming irrespective of the age of the queen. The new queen often has the first swarm cells even before her first generation of brood has hatched.

Some people have imported them, and quite recently too, so it is just possible you have a descendant from those.

On the other hand it may just be a freak occurrence from good stock, such as if a very strong colony lost its queen, and when the emergency cells hatched it was big enough to throw caste(s), in which case you might be onto something.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Hi folks, I got a call to attend to a swarm on the edge of a gatepost tonight and have put them in a Paynes polynuc with 4 frames of foundation and they seemed to be the most placid bees I've ever come across so would really like to over winter them if at all possible and breed Queens from them next year to calm some of my more tetchy hives down a bit.

Any tips for keeping these in the nuc and also how best to get themselves built up enough

They're on 4 frames of undrawn foundation at the moment though I'm going to put a frame of brood from one of my other best hives in tomorrow to give them something to focus on......

Pedantic maybe but is it really a cast swarm? Makes a big difference if the queen is or is not mated.

 

[fred scuttle]

Pedantic maybe but is it really a cast swarm? Makes a big difference if the queen is or is not mated.

Thats alright John, I'm not 100% sure but the number and size of the swarm was certainly not prime sized.... However I'm probably wrong. I've added a frame of BIAS, pollen, and stores to get them going as suggested by Redwood thanks for that, but have kept the Queen excluder on for the next 3 days and will open it in case she is a virgin but I've got a feeling this is probably a unite as I'm very much doubtful it will overwinter any other way... Thanks everyone for the advice and I've noted the earlier comment about them being bees of the swarmy variety..... I'm a glutton for punishment and couldn't just leave them on the gate post... I'll probably regret it though come next spring

 

[fred scuttle]

September swarmers?

Only bees I have met that are likely to do that (you can get odd freaks) are A.m.iberica.

If that is what you have found there I would strongly advise not to breed from them as its welcome to hell on the queen cells and swarming front.

If you can get it through the winter...and at this stage I would advise more than one frame of brood, preferably with a lot hatching, then I would keep them through next season to see what they behave like over the year. Only breed from them once they are proven.

If it IS something with a smattering of iberica in it you face a season long battle against swarming irrespective of the age of the queen. The new queen often has the first swarm cells even before her first generation of brood has hatched.

Some people have imported them, and quite recently too, so it is just possible you have a descendant from those.

On the other hand it may just be a freak occurrence from good stock, such as if a very strong colony lost its queen, and when the emergency cells hatched it was big enough to throw caste(s), in which case you might be onto something.

And
Thanks for the great advice on this, something that I hadn't even considered so very grateful for the insight... I'm hoping this instance is of the latter scenarios you have described....

 

[pargyle]

"I've added a frame of BIAS, pollen, and stores to get them going as suggested by Redwood thanks for that, but have kept the Queen excluder on for the next 3 days and will open it in case she is a virgin but I've got a feeling this is probably a unite"

I wouldn't bother with the QE .. if she's a virgin she is going to need every chance she has to get mated this late in the season ... there's still a few drones in my hives so there's always a chance.

I would not risk trying to unite an unknown swarm with your bees ... even a tiny colony can be nursed through winter - I'd look at getting a Paynes Poly Nuc if you seriously want to keep them or build hive bonnet for your Nuc out of Kingspan/Celotex. You will really need to feed them up at present with 1:1 to get them comb building and the warmer you can get the Nuc box the more chance they have of building a bit more comb ... then it's 2:1 for their winter feed.

I'm like you ... bit of a sucker for a lost cause ... so, good luck - they can survive but like ITLD says ... pot luck as to what they are !

 

[mbc]

Bit like Triggers broom, change the head (queen)and the handle (add some bees)and the Broom will last for many years.