good and bad new modern hive designs

[Gilberdyke John]

It looks again like something to gull the gullible - why would someone in SA spend that much money on a hive? The standard hive out there is the Langstroth - small entrance, no ventilation holes, no holes in crown boards and solid floors - the bees seem to cope with the heat out there no bother. Most suppliers out there will sell you a hive outfit - brood box,QX,super, solid floor with entrance block, roof and waxed frames ready creosoted for between six and eight hundred rand - less than thirty quid at todays pitiful rate! although out in Lesotho that's the equivalent of one year's secondary education (Including uniform)
The Yarpies aren't as daft as us to be spending loads of cash on gimmicky toys

Here is another "<i>
The composite structure allows for a hive lifespan of 50 years, whereas wooden hives last 4 to 6 years."</i>

Bull excrement. (some of the local Association wooden hives are at least 30 years old. I have wooden hives six years old - and they were made from pallet wood...)

Having lived in Johannesburg I comment - Termites anyone?
Even in high rise flats the doorframes were folded sheet steel to resist termite attack.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Having lived in Johannesburg I comment - Termites anyone?
Even in high rise flats the doorframes were folded sheet steel to resist termite attack.

maybe it's the creosote that keeps them away? didn't see much of an issue with termites eating wood in Lesotho. although it did tickle me where some of the nests turned up - even in the captial city you had the odd nest springing up in the middle of the pavement!
And in Jo'burg I can't remember what my cousin Irene's doorframes and windows were made of (she lives in Florida)

 

[Gilberdyke John]

maybe it's the creosote that keeps them away? didn't see much of an issue with termites eating wood in Lesotho. although it did tickle me where some of the nests turned up - even in the captial city you had the odd nest springing up in the middle of the pavement!
And in Jo'burg I can't remember what my cousin Irene's doorframes and windows were made of (she lives in Florida)

We started off on the 18th floor of a block on the edge of Hillbrow. A view of the telecoms tower at the front and the city of Johannesburg at the back. From that height we could look down into some of the older streets and watch the antics.
Having the majority of shops in the city close on Saturday afternoon took us by surprise. The Asian shopkeepers stayed open but were unable to sell certain products so part of their shops had internal shutters.
Boerwors sausage, sold by the yard but meat of all types was phenomenally cheap. Local brandy doubled as paint stripper but Castle Lager was quite palatable.
Walking under a tree a dead wasplike insect had fallen to the ground. It was mostly brown but the abdomen was around 2" long and 3/4" diameter. Quite fearsome and I hoped there were no live relatives about.
Oh and no television in those days so drive in cinemas were popular.
Happy days.

 

[Little John]

Well ... As you know, I'm all for experimentation ... and I'm in the 'low interference' category of beekeeping but, despite your comments, I can't see a lot of benefit in using tbis hive ... there are easier (and I believe better) ways to 'keep' bees that lend themselves to what bees do naturally and still meet the 'low interference' principle.

If there are exponents of this hive then they are fringe beekeepers or masochists as far as I can tell ! Good luck to them - whatever floats your boat is my position !

Experimentation ? The Bienenkiste hive is an updated Krainer-Bauernstock 'farmer's hive' which has a history going back several hundred years ... from a time when other people were farting around with skeps. I'd like to think that this design has proven itself by now.


Ok - so this thread was intended to be about new designs - well, here's a novel way of configuring a Long Hive - never seen anyone else do this before ...

And the reason why there are eight 5-frame nucs so close together is in order to function as a test bed for what will become known as The Cabover System - a method of housing either 4 National hives, or 8 Nucs under one 100% weatherproof cover. No need for painting boxes anymore.
This system will give easy access for inspections, and incorporates a multiple access feeder, such that 4 hives or 8 nucs can be fed syrup from a single filling point, as well as each box having an overhead feeding facility for individual colony needs.

Further details of this (100% original) system will be revealed later in the season.
LJ

 

[Swarm]

Look forward to reading about that LJ.

 

[Poly Hive]

Bernard Mobus used to say at every pre Expert Exam lecture weekend when he would talk for umpteen hours with out ever getting hoarse, "whatever you do please do NOT invent a hive there are more than enough already"

I cannot agree more with a bee related statement.

PH

 

[oliver90owner]

-never seen anyone else do this before

As PH.

You may never have seen one, admittedly, but Robin Dartington (just for one) covered arrangements such as this years ago. Far better idea to have entrances on alternate opposite sides for nucs, I reckon - less chance of bees absconding to next door.

Ask Finsky, when he returns. He will put you right.

 

[Poly Hive]

FWIW

When I put nucs on the same stand facing the same way invariably one would dwindle as the queens obviously had differing attractiveness.

I took it on board and now I always set them apart, and the nucs are coloured to aid the queens return from mating and to help "ground" the bees.

Works for me.

PH

 

[Little John]

-never seen anyone else do this before

As PH.

You may never have seen one, admittedly, but Robin Dartington (just for one) covered arrangements such as this years ago. Far better idea to have entrances on alternate opposite sides for nucs, I reckon - less chance of bees absconding to next door.

Ask Finsky, when he returns. He will put you right.

Since when was Finsky a beekeeping authority ?

That's precisely why I'm trialling eight side-by-side - to see if this should become a problem, which hasn't shown itself thus far.

As I'm sure you know, the idea of having several dozen hive entrances in close proximity (and all facing the same direction) is not new - very common in Eastern European countries, way back to Anton Janscha and before. In contrast, I'm only planning eight nucs per box.

The over-wintering of nucs is still a beekeeping procedure in it's infancy. I think it's a great pity that people like yourself and PH can't manage some encouragement for those trying to improve beekeeping techniques.

Personally I couldn't give a tinker's cuss for what either of you think - but I'm sure there are others on here who's enthusiasm might be crushed by such negativity.
LJ

 

[oliver90owner]

Nucs? Overwintering? Simple in poly. Full stop. Even apidae taken through these days.

Finsky will put you right. HE knows what happens with adjacent entrances. HE has already been there and done that, probably a long time ago. Ask him, you might learn something!

Negativity? Carry on, enjoy yourself. Find out for yourself. Of course you are right and everybody else is wrong. Carry on, go ahead, but don't think you are the first because you're not. Simple as that.

 

[Quis Custodiet]

.................................. is not new - very common in Eastern European countries, way back to Anton Janscha and before. In contrast, I'm only planning eight nucs per box.

The over-wintering of nucs is still a beekeeping procedure in it's infancy. I think it's a great pity that people like yourself and PH can't manage some encouragement for those trying to improve beekeeping techniques.

Personally I couldn't give a tinker's cuss for what either of you think - but I'm sure there are others on here who's enthusiasm might be crushed by such negativity.
LJ

At the risk of incurring your wrath, may I respectfully observe that the bees in Eastern European countries are generally Carniolans; noted for their "homing instincts". This is not a characteristic of bees likely to be found in these islands and for what it's worth I concur with PH's comments. "Queen Palaces" do not work here. Have a holiday in Slovenia and you will see what I mean.

 

[Poly Hive]

"The over-wintering of nucs is still a beekeeping procedure in it's infancy. I think it's a great pity that people like yourself and PH can't manage some encouragement for those trying to improve beekeeping techniques."

Whew what a sweeping statement.

So lets take a wee look eh?

Where did I disencourage over wintering of nucs? Nowhere on this thread and if you bother to do a wee search I think you might find some thoughtful words on overwintering nucs... what I took time to write.

I have been over wintering nucs for near 30 years so may have a little insight.

I also have some insight into the pitfalls of having the entrances facing the same way. I gave that up as a very bad job some 28 years ago.

Sorry to prick your balloon but... it ain't new matey, nothing in beekeeping is.Tis that simple.

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showpost.php?p=184475&postcount=28

The Beecraft article down the bottom. One mention, I am sure there are more and possibly on my site.

I have lectured and written on over wintering nucs and have successfully brought through Mini Nucs even.

Before reinventing the wheel some research is useful. Square tires are bumpy!

PH

 

[dpearce4]

PH having just read and reread the post Little John put where he was speaking about you and O90O I think pity might have been the wrong word used I actually think he ment shame as in its a shame people don't listen to you more about it.

Little John re finnie he has a lot of knowledge that people wont allow to come out as they have personal gripes with him. Trust me get round the crap people throw at him and you can learn a lot from him.

 

[Poly Hive]

Ok.. not too sure we agree one this but I await a pm from the poster to confirm this stance.

Ph

 

[BeeJayBee]

Whew! Calm down!

If all the beekeepers in the world read all the beekeeping books in the world and then sat on their hands and tried nothing, "because it's already been done," there'd be no progress.

Let's wait and see what happens, then we can all learn!

 

[Little John]

At the risk of incurring your wrath, may I respectfully observe that the bees in Eastern European countries are generally Carniolans; noted for their "homing instincts". This is not a characteristic of bees likely to be found in these islands and for what it's worth I concur with PH's comments. "Queen Palaces" do not work here. Have a holiday in Slovenia and you will see what I mean.

I am breeding Carnies - having purchased AMM breeders a couple of years ago which turned out to be the worst bees I've ever worked with - I imported breeding stock from Hungary and Slovenia last year.

I don't know where the idea of Queen Palaces came from - certainly not from me. These are NOT mating nucs, they are (or will be) over-wintered 5-frame nucs for sale 'as is' - that is: in the boxes they have over-wintered in.

LJ

 

[Little John]

Where did I disencourage over wintering of nucs? Nowhere on this thread

Following hard on the heels of my post which included a picture of 8 nucs being over-wintered in 2 novel boxes (which will become one, eventually), you wrote:

"whatever you do please do NOT invent a hive there are more than enough already" I cannot agree more with a bee related statement.

That is a fairly clear attempt at discouragement at what I am currently trialling, is it not ?

Over-wintering IS in it's infancy - there are several good ideas out there, I agree - but many involve placing pairs of nucs over brood boxes for warmth. As I typically produce 27 x 5-frame nucs from every 3 well-stocked National broods, it's obvious that 13 pairs of nucs cannot be supported in this manner by 3 National broods - it is therefore necessary for them to support themselves. That is what I am working on - and so far, so good.

There's a guy in Manitoba who over-winters a bunch of 3-frame nucs in a similar way. His operation is flawed (from my POV) because he needs to open-up the boxes during the winter in order to sell half the queens, then re-combine the rest as 6-frame nucs which go on to survive the winter. I asked him about possible drifting across such a small distance between entrances. He said 'none'.

Well, I don't disbelieve him, but I need to check that for myself - hence the experimental setup in my post. I have no evidence thus far of any drifting whatsoever.


What I find rather curious, is that this is a thread about new (modern) designs, and so I thought the membership might just have an interest in what I'm doing.

And so I posted about what I'm doing - I didn't ask for any advice or help, and yet some of you guys just can't help yourselves with handing-out your opinions and experiences. But I don't want to hear them, and I never asked to hear them.

So you've written and lectured on the overwintering of nucs - so fine - be satisfied with that. But don't try and sell your experiences to me. If I had read or listened to you, my thinking would then be biased regarding your experiences. There was a sound reason behind Microsoft advertising for research staff - who must not have had any prior contact with computers - some years ago. It's the only way to source people capable of thinking without learned prejudice. They couldn't achieve that today of course.

I think on balance it was a mistake to have posted here. My error.

LJ

 

[user 6228]

One thing that make me shake my head (and sometimes scream) is the U.S. hardline reluctance to substantially insulate, yet willingly place hives/nucs together/above for warmth...

 

[Poly Hive]

There are in my view more than enough hive types with out adding more to the already complex and very confusing situation.

As for over wintering being new for goodness sake. Bees have been around for how long? Well thats the length of time they have been over wintering.

PH

 

[Quis Custodiet]

One thing that make me shake my head (and sometimes scream) is the U.S. hardline reluctance to substantially insulate, yet willingly place hives/nucs together/above for warmth...

For several years now we have been using polystyrene nuc. boxes (mostly Canadian type). The improved build up in spring is very noticeable and winter losses are negligible.