good and bad new modern hive designs

[MuswellMetro]

No it can't, all the hives have their own individual plans, differing thicknesses of timber and dimensions, their own design.
What name would you give to a Rose hive, if using some other name, when ordering one from.... say Thornes.

The thought of a 14x12 brood box with ends walls made out of 2"x12" x18" pine planks fills me with fear (due to my extra osteopath bill)

 

[MuswellMetro]

My nightmare hive is the Hedgecoe, it is a ply hive now sold by Thornes

This year i know of two that have blown over as due to their long legs the design is unstable (it's like half a Dartington and uses 14x12 frames)

The designer has tried to add lots of thing but it is over complected.

the main problem i see is that it has TOP entrance of several drilled holes and slide cover as a reducer, this means it is diffiuclt for the Mortuary Bees to derag dead bees to the top of the hive to clear the dead, so he added a drop down mesh floor to clear the dead out , this mesh floor when the ply warps can fall down leaving the hive vulnerable to wasps, it is quite common to see bees squeez eout of the floor gasp instead of the top entrance

It comes with four top bee space 18mm ply HALF supers presumable as it is so tall you need to lighten the supers when full of honey,

But that causes problems with hoffman or manley supers frames as you have a big void full of wild comb (ie 4 manley fit rather than 5,) the designer produced half super with 9mm ply , They seemed at first, better and 5 manley fit per half super BUT the sides warp and do not seal ( so you now have three entrance, between the super, main top entrance and and through a loose floor

it you put a swarm in it they never stay in, the BEES know best

 

[user 6228]

Who said it was?

Assuming you meant using multiple all same sized boxes.

No, they don't - but that is what a Rose frame is. Nobody asked for mediums until Tim Rowe asked for them to be made and called them Rose frames. That was very helpful as they are a good frame size.

My nightmare hive is the Hedgecoe, it is a ply hive now sold by Thornes

This year i know of two that have blown over as due to their long legs the design is unstable (it's like half a Dartington and uses 14x12 frames)

The designer has tried to add lots of thing but it is over complected.

the main problem i see is that it has TOP entrance of several drilled holes and slide cover as a reducer, this means it is diffiuclt for the Mortuary Bees to derag dead bees to the top of the hive to clear the dead, so he added a drop down mesh floor to clear the dead out , this mesh floor when the ply warps can fall down leaving the hive vulnerable to wasps, it is quite common to see bees squeez eout of the floor gasp instead of the top entrance

It comes with four top bee space 18mm ply HALF supers presumable as it is so tall you need to lighten the supers when full of honey,

But that causes problems with hoffman or manley supers frames as you have a big void full of wild comb (ie 4 manley fit rather than 5,) the designer produced half super with 9mm ply , They seemed at first, better and 5 manley fit per half super BUT the sides warp and do not seal ( so you now have three entrance, between the super, main top entrance and and through a loose floor

it you put a swarm in it they never stay in, the BEES know best

Thin ply top entrance?
Maybe I should ask thornes if they will lend me one to do a thermal test on it?

 

[ugcheleuce]

Tim Rowe's Rose Hive is *not* protected by a patent

Tim patented his hive design...

No, he did not.

It is a common untruth that is being bandied about on forums. I suppose Rose Hive opponents could use that statement to help discourage new and old beekeepers from trying out the Rose Hive.

He *applied* for a patent, in September 2008. The patent was never granted, and its current official status is "deemed withdrawn".

The fact that Tim applied for a patent says nothing about his intentions. One can speculate, for example, that a well-known beehive distributor would not have wanted to risk investing in the manufacturing of the hive unless there was some kind of assurance that it would not infringe on someone else innovation and that the person authorising them to make the hives has made a formal claim that he is the inventor of the product.

See the patent register, patent bibliographical details and patent application.

Samuel

 

[ugcheleuce]

My nightmare hive is the Hedgecoe, it is a ply hive now sold by Thornes.

I saw this hive on the web when it came out, and could not figure out how one would be supposed to use it. I still can't make out heads or tails of it. There are some pictures here.

If a rose hive is the same as national then I guess national is same as langstroth. Lanstroth is same as dadant. Oh smith is like the rose box. Oh hang on. Why aren't the frames interchangable? I guess they must be different. All this time trying to fit a frame into a skep...silly me

The thing about the Rose Hive is that it is a non-generic hive. In other words, when someone says "Rose Hive" they refer to more than just the hive. The *method* forms an important part of the identity of the Rose Hive. Personally, I would consider a hive to be a "Rose Hive" even if it doesn't have the simple four-plank construction but has a complex construction like a standard National box, as long as it takes a Rose Hive frame and is used roughly similar to the way Tim Rowe describes it.

Also, when someone says "I'm going to use the Rose Hive" then I think one must ask whether he means it literally, for perhaps he really means "I'm going to use the method that is used with the Rose Hive". If you read up on e.g. the Zander hive you'll notice some striking similarities to the Rose Hive -- it uses a shallow one-size box and the preferred method with those boxes involve swapping out boxes much like the Rose Hive does it. The Zander has short lugs (you get long-lug versions, too), and has a comb area of 200x400mm. What makes the Rose Hive an improvement over the Zander is that the Rose Hive's boxes are the same size as the National boxes, which makes sharing and mixing much more effortless.

As for the original question, I would consider the Rose Hive's combined frame-rest/hand-hold an innovation, because I haven't seen it anywhere else. If you know of a similar design (that uses a single piece of wood for that part of the hive), let me know. The Dutch "i-bee" hive also has that part integrated, but it's made from plastic, not wood. The i-bee hive is easy to clean, light-weight, and the same size as common hives in the region.

When the designer of the DB Plus hive started developing his hive over a period of several years, because he wanted a polystyreen hive that can be used as-is with local frames, he took the opportunity to add a number of extra innovations. The "DB" in DB Plus means "Dadant-Blatt". Sorry, all of this is in Dutch (but there's Google Translate). Another article about the DB Plus is here, on Imkerpedia.

 

[mbc]

Personally, I would consider a hive to be a "Rose Hive" even if it doesn't have the simple four-plank construction but has a complex construction like a standard National box, as long as it takes a Rose Hive frame and is used roughly similar to the way Tim Rowe describes it.

Presactly.

 

[priono]

I actually started this Thread not as a rose hive thread but as a modern strange design hives..
But thanks.
BTW i like the rose hive as it makes things much easier i guess. although i think its just combining a BS or lang with a warre

i meant the thread to be more about hives like this:

 

[MuswellMetro]

I saw this hive on the web when it came out, and could not figure out how one would be supposed to use it. I still can't make out heads or tails of it. There are some pictures here.
.

Well, I see that it been further modified to ones I have near me in that it has full width top bee space supers.

He has some good ideas in there a super half width and half width crown board, makes it easy to combine a nuc to full hive and the nuc and hive top entrance are within a 1" so, the bees are fussed when you remove the old Nuc

it also comes with a divison board with openable QE . The divison board allows you to easily change brood comb by putting it on the far side of the division board to emerge

His open half width feeder is good and contains an American style float but like all wooden feeder prone to leak

 

[Hivemaker.]

i meant the thread to be more about hives like this:

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=14518

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=14570

 

[Erichalfbee]

It looks like a clock, with a slim pendulum, inhabited by one bee
The best place for to should be Tate Modern.....shirley.

 

[Madge]

The Rose frame is in-between a National shallow and a National deep. That's why I called it medium. That's all.

 

[ugcheleuce]

I actually started this Thread not as a rose hive thread but as a modern strange design hives.

Well, if "strange" is key, then the Turkish hive that looks like something from Star Wars is definitely a candidate. But don't let the odd looks fool you -- these hives are [I'm told] used in their thousands on commercial farms.

http://www.apimaye.co.uk/thermo-beehive.html

As for those other "designer" hives, well, if you read closely you'll discover that they're often designed by people who don't know anything about bees. One designer even boasted about it -- he thought that examining a box-like hive would restrain his creativity and prevent him from thinking outside the box.

If you're talking about hives-in-houses, then I can tell you I really dream of having one of these in my home one day:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=T5214DPzHNY

 

[Madge]

If a rose hive is the same as national then I guess national is same as langstroth. etc ...silly me

Yes, quite. Silly you. I did not say a Rose hive is the same as a National. I said the Rose frame is a medium National (but it was Tim who decided on the depth of that frame).

...
Yes, I can see they are different.

I use 14 x 12 National frames in my Dartingtons. I dont claim that a Dartington is a National. Different design, shirley?

...

Of course not - but you do call the frames you use 'National frames'.

No, he did not.

It is a common untruth that is being bandied about on forums. I suppose Rose Hive opponents could use that statement to help discourage new and old beekeepers from trying out the Rose Hive.

He *applied* for a patent, in September 2008. The patent was never granted, and its current official status is "deemed withdrawn".
...

Thanks for the correction. I did not know that.

 

[Ely]

Sorry. I wasn't taking the mick out of you but the thread in general. Proof that beekeepers are the most pedantic creatures on earth.

 

[user 6228]

Well, if "strange" is key, then the Turkish hive that looks like something from Star Wars is definitely a candidate. But don't let the odd looks fool you -- these hives are [I'm told] used in their thousands on commercial farms.

http://www.apimaye.co.uk/thermo-beehive.html

....

Thermo-beehive maybe thermo as in thermo-plastic, but the wall thickness and the cover material dont shout low conductivity to me

 

[Swarm]

I know a lady who uses apimaye and swears by them, she is also commercial.

 

[VEG]

I know a lady who uses apimaye and swears by them, she is also commercial.

I think she has over 40 of them now

 

[ugcheleuce]

Everybody knows Omlet and the Beehaus by now, but which are your most and least favourite modern bee hive designs?

I'm not sure if this is a favourite or un-favourite, but it is an interesting flash in the pan nonetheless... triangular frames (1979):

http://www.twilightmd.com/Samples/Hogg/Hogg_Halfcomb___Publications/ABJ_1979_May.pdf

 

[REDWOOD]

Was that triangular hive designed for Toblerones

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxFiVgD2xNk"]Toblerone - Out On Its Own - 1997 - UK Advert - YouTube[/ame]

 

[The Drone Ranger]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axOnGEBubng"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axOnGEBubng[/ame]

The Cowpat Hive also called the Sun Hive
One to avoid I suspect
Appeared on Country file when Julia Bradbury got stung under the eye
Should have been on Crime Watch