Dying Bees

[Jeff Buzz]

I have some hives that have not done well this year. They went through the winter very strong and in the spring were still filling double brood boxes. Late spring I visited the hives and found 1000's of dead and dying bees and at first thought they had been sprayed with something.
I called out the bee inspector who checked all seven hives but could find no evidence of any disease other than a bit of varroa DWV ect.
We decided on the reason for so many dead bees was that they were winter bees dying off in the spring in great numbers.
Well they are still dying the queens are laying but on 3 of the hives still finding dead and dying bees so not building up as expected.

The other strange thing is no drone brood in any of the hives???

I would welcome any comments.

Thanks

 

[Eyeman]

? Nosema

 

[Chris B]

I'm surprised your inspector didn't mention the possibility of CBPV (chronic bee paralysis virus) which has become quite common these last few seasons. Symptoms could match your description.

 

[Jeff Buzz]

Hi Chris
I have seen this and no sign of CBPV

 

[Jeff Buzz]

No poo splattered any where.

 

[Stevie Day]

If the problem isn't to do with disease.
Then I wonder if there is a common source of resource they are using ie water that is contaminated/polluted?

 

[Jeff Buzz]

If the problem isn't to do with disease.
Then I wonder if there is a common source of resource they are using ie water that is contaminated/polluted?

I am also looking after 3 other hive within 200 yds and they seem fine.
It really is a mystery

Especially the lack of drone brood

 

[Chris B]

Hi Chris
I have seen this and no sign of CBPV

What did your CBPV look like? Mine was large number of dead and dying bees in front of the hive and inside on the floor, with a few exhibiting the quivering and k-wing symptom.

 

[Jeff Buzz]

"with a few exhibiting the quivering and k-wing symptom"

I have had this and its quite obvious in a hive the bees go quite black and shiney and really stand out.

I think we would have spotted this but none seen.

 

[Anduril]

Sounds like nosema ceranae due to the bees dwindling. No outward signs visible.

 

[Jeff Buzz]

Sounds like nosema ceranae due to the bees dwindling. No outward signs visible.

I agree but I have just taken this from beebase website


. Mortality in front of the hives is not a frequent symptom of N. ceranae infection. Dysentery and visible adult bee mortality in front of the hives are reported to be absent in N. ceranae infections. Colonies can fail to build up and even dwindle away. This can sometimes be rapid or take place over several months.

I have lots of dead bees in front of hive. But second part is spot on.
What can be done ???

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Sounds like nosema ceranae due to the bees dwindling. No outward signs visible.

Although you don't always get shiny Bees with CCPV either

Sent from my SM-A310F using Tapatalk

 

[REDWOOD]

get your bees tested for nosema. you want get drone brood until the colony has expanded as a norm
I caught one of mine just in time at the beginning of this year, she is now thriving with three supers on and all it took is a gallon of 1:1 with Hivemakers thymol mix

 

[Chris B]

http://www.coloss.org/beebook/II/virus/1/1/7

Didn't really get the shiny bees with ours either. Coloss seems to be suggesting it's an either/or set of symptoms, certainly consistent with my own experience. Are your bees Buckfasts?

 

[Hivemaker.]

There are two strains of the CBPV virus, with one the bees are trembling and almost look like they are doing a kind of waggle dance on the combs, often with a shiny greasy appearance and being tugged at by other healthy bees, the bees are not necessarily black, some are often slightly stunted in size... with the other type the bees look quite normal in appearance, not shiny, not shaky, but are lethargic and just dropping dead out the front of the hive, also inside on the floor and any recesses like where frame end lugs sit.
Both types at first glance could be mistaken for a pesticide kill, going by the numbers of dead and moribund dying bees.

 

[Jeff Buzz]

Hi Hivemaker

not shiny, not shaky, but are lethargic and just dropping dead out the front of the hive, also inside on the floor and any recesses like where frame end lugs sit.

Describes what I have pretty well do I need your thymol mix? will they take it this time of year?

 

[Hivemaker.]

Describes what I have pretty well do I need your thymol mix? will they take it this time of year?

If the problem was Nosema, then that disease is easy to cure/fix, but nothing much works with CBPV, especially the second type mentioned, it can effect every hive in an apiary or sometimes just a few, with others being fine, or just a light infection which they get over, some it kills completely, it seems to happen quite suddenly, one week everything looks fine, big strong colonies with several supers filled, the following like disaster area, and it stinks after a while with all the dead bees piling up.

 

[Jeff Buzz]

If the problem was Nosema, then that disease is easy to cure/fix, but nothing much works with CBPV, especially the second type mentioned, it can effect every hive in an apiary or sometimes just a few, with others being fine, or just a light infection which they get over, some it kills completely, it seems to happen quite suddenly, one week everything looks fine, big strong colonies with several supers filled, the following like disaster area, and it stinks after a while with all the dead bees piling up.

Yes I have one or two really strong hives mixed in with the duds.

These were all very strong hives all double brood wall to wall at the end of last summer seem like they have become a victim of there own success.

 

[Truble]

Might be worth opening a few up and seeing if they have the bloated honey-sac associated with these paralysis viruses. Or if you have a tame microscopist to hand try getting him to look at gut sections and determine if there are dark inclusions in the gut epithelium, known as Morison's cell inclusion. These are associated with chronic bee paralysis infected bees. All described and pictured in Bailey's Honey bee pathology (Fig 29).....from which I have shamelessly cribbed the above.

 

[BeeJayBee]

No poo splattered any where.

Just to add, and to try not to mess up the comments about CBPV, Nosema apis is often linked with splattering but Nosema ceranae isn't.