Drought and Winter feeding

[Antipodes]

Hi All,

Does anyone have any advice about winter feeding and drought generally please? I know you guys get droughts too (I googled!).

My annual average rainfall and temps are generally like South East UK...but my winter daytime temps are warmer (12 not 8). Usually the bees bring in some nectar through winter, particularly late winter. I'm not sure the drought will turn around any time soon, and we are hundreds of mm down.

I guess I'm worried if I don't feed the bees might die, but the nights are frosty.

Hefting hives they seem a bit light. For instance, one (which is three "ideals" high) is about 66 pounds all up and has lost about 6 pounds in about two and a half weeks.

 

[Murox]

Many uk keepers use fondant for winter feeding and then (commercial invert) or syrup in various concentrations at other times. Water sources are not usually a real problem in winter, but are occasionally in summer when some form of alternative water source is provided for the apiary.

 

[Antipodes]

Thanks Murox. I've looked up a fondant recipe and it sounds like just the thing I need. Not too much water in it which is great. I'll sit the fondant on top of the hive mats after putting an additional ideal on top.

 

[Anduril]

After looking at your beekeeping supply companies, it doesn't look as though you have fondant, ours are specialist beekeeping fondant. Having said that it is bakers fondant and comes from the same factory, but packaged differently. As an example click here it is a Belgium company. Press where it says here. The fondant recipes for bees online are a bit suspect these days. If you can get hold of bakers fondant all the better.

 

[thedozzer]

Is there any water within short flying distance for them? been doing quite a bit of reading on the water requirement of honey bees, and a we have put out a A4 size tray full of gravel that we fill with water and they have used it all through the year, it must be quite a valuable resource as the different hives fight over it, we used invert for winter feeding.
we tried fondant but they didn't use much of it, less than 1kg.

 

[enrico]

You must have real bakers over their. What you want is one that does iced cakes and buns. They use Iicing from a big box. Usually 12.5 kg. They will probably sell you a box. It is perfect for feeding if you are worried about them going hungry. Cut it into blocks. Put it in a plastic bag and out a hole in the bag where the feed hole is I the crown board.
They will love it and it does them no harm.
E

 

[Poly Hive]

and no we don't have Aussie style droughts. The nearest we have ever got was last year which was utterly exceptional as I certainly have never heard of the cattle being taken inside to be fed due to lack of grass which happened last summer. I believe you guys shoot the stock in a bad drought so we were no where near that situation. I correspond with a friend in Victoria pretty often and have been both there and Tassie. Your first ferry was due to a Shetlander.

PH

 

[Antipodes]

Thanks all. I tried to make some fondant last night ....it got a bit late into the evening and now in the morning it hasn't set at all. it is just like a thick syrup. Whilst making it I boiled it gently for about 20 mins ... 4 parts sugar to one part water with some vinegar at the recommended proportion. Any ideas please?

Anduril, yes, I think I'd get strange looks in the beekeeping store if I asked for fondant. I'll ask at some bakeries. It might be called something else here perhaps.

thedozzer, yes, I'll try better to keep up the water. The birds tend to get at it.
Often there is a heavy dew or about .2mm of "rain" so they might be getting some of that. I think Hobart is the driest city in Australia this year, drier than both Melbourne and Adelaide and the huge fires here have destroyed leatherwood sites, including one of my club's sites.

Enrico, thanks for the tips. We tend not to use crown boards here at all. What we do is put a vinyl mat directly on top of the frames (langstroth hives) and then (usually) a migratory lid on the top of the top box, so just above the vinyl. I am different to many in that I insulate my lids with polystyrene which means there is only a smallish bee space above the vinyl. I think I could fit a thin layer of fondant on the mat or alternatively put a big chunk of it on the mat but within another ideal box.

Poly, yes Victoria has been hit badly but have been getting some rain recently. The dry must be something to do with ocean temperatures. It's bad for the trees and bad for the bees that's for sure.

 

[thedozzer]

thedozzer, yes, I'll try better to keep up the water. The birds tend to get at it.
Often there is a heavy dew or about .2mm of "rain" so they might be getting some of that. I think Hobart is the driest city in Australia this year, drier than both Melbourne and Adelaide and the huge fires here have destroyed leatherwood sites, including one of my club's sites.

Hi Antipodies
We use the tray full of fine gravel that way there is no water on the surface but the bees can land on the stone and suck the water up from the gaps, it seems to work and there is no surface water for birds.
And i know how hot Auz gets, was in Forbes and Sydney last Christmas when it got to 47c in the city!!

 

[Murox]

Thanks all. I tried to make some fondant last night ....it got a bit late into the evening and now in the morning it hasn't set at all. it is just like a thick syrup. Whilst making it I boiled it gently for about 20 mins ... 4 parts sugar to one part water with some vinegar at the recommended proportion. Any ideas please?

Not sure where I pinched this recipe from but I think its scalable.

Bakers Fondant
2lbs sugar
1/2 pint or less water
1 tablespoon liquid glucose

Heat water, sugar and glucose together until sugar has dissolved, bring to boil, boil to 115/116C. - soft ball stage - drop a splodge of mix into a bowl of cold water the resulting cool ball of sugar will be soft like a chewy mint, if it disintegrates under your fingers it has not boiled enough, keep boiling and trying till you get the "soft ball" When this happens stop boiling immediately, turn off the heat and put the pan into a sink of cold water and start stirring. It is important to keep the mixture moving, when it gets harder to stir and has cooled sufficiently to work with hands pour out onto a clean worktop splashed with water, knead the mixture like bread until cool. Wrap in cling film. The glucose keeps it supple.
You don't really need the vinegar, its just a complication.

 

[Antipodes]

Thanks thedozzer. 47....wow. That will melt the wax on the frames right out of the hive!
I'll do better with my water.

Thanks Murox, I did it incorrectly last night ....didn't use liquid glucose. Take 2 with the new recipe!

Thanks

 

[Repwoc]

Thanks thedozzer. 47....wow. That will melt the wax on the frames right out of the hive!
I'll do better with my water.

Thanks Murox, I did it incorrectly last night ....didn't use liquid glucose. Take 2 with the new recipe!

Thanks

I've used that recipe with glucose powder and it works just as well. Liquid glucose is just 'glucose syrup'.

 

[eltalia]

Hi All,
[...]
My annual average rainfall and temps are generally like South East UK...but my winter daytime temps are warmer (12 not 8).

Yep, I figured that there was a contibuting factor in your posts here as
there are very very few active Aussie posters on web based forums, and
certainly Tassie and SE Victoria - in parts - own moments of UK climate(s).

Never having heard nor seen anyone using fondant around Aussie I
am not surprised to read your experience, and again even lollywater was
unheard of up until the Internet - as a close approxinate timeline.
One reason may well be that like how most prepare "syrup" it is the heating
part of the job which is *the* unknown. I'm not going to get into any diorama (word?)
around recipes, but in contrast (traditionally) where dearth is on it is a simple matter
of moistening up some white table sugar and place that on newspaper above the
frames under the lid, job done.
Bees will tell you if they do not need it as they carry excess out, treating it as
garbage to be removed.
You'll do whatever in supplement feeding of bees you may believe are starving,
nobody here is going to influence that decision really buuut
what you might do is go research figures of loss for colonys in Victoria and
SA around the Gulfs where the lollywater craze has really taken off.
You might then join the dots yourself. It isn't one single factor, granted, but for
sure as shite the lollywater isn't helping.
Glad to help you out where I can - having run apiarys in Geelong and Murray Bridge
many many moons ago.

Bill

 

[masterBK]

"4 parts sugar to one part water with some vinegar".

Inverting sucrose into glucose and fructose by acid hydrolysis using vinegar is not a good idea as it forms HMF which is toxic to bees and shortens their lives. Was done in the "good" old days due to ignorance but the recipes using vinegar still hang around.

 

[Antipodes]

Thanks Repwoc, I'll see what I can get in the shops I suppose and try again.


MasterBK .....thanks for the warning. I confess I fed my runny (failed) fondant to four hives this afternoon...I didn't want to waste it! They gobbled it up.

Thanks Bill. Interesting comments about sugar water and feeding. It might transpire that I unwittingly start a fondant feeding craze in Australia, particularly if I tell people about it!

 

[eltalia]

[...]
Thanks Bill. Interesting comments about sugar water and feeding. It might transpire that I unwittingly start a fondant feeding craze in Australia, particularly if I tell people about it!

Maaaaate... since 2014 there came on board a whole new pen of ewe(s).
Buy into pretty much anything.
/shrug/

Bill

 

[BugsInABox]

I'm confused; what is lollywater - second time I've seen the term.

Yours
Noob Neil

 

[maddydog]

I'm confused; what is lollywater - second time I've seen the term.

Yours
Noob Neil

Bill's colloquialism for sugar syrup

 

[thedozzer]

I'm confused; what is lollywater - second time I've seen the term.

Yours Neil

I think its a nickname for Sugar water/syrup

 

[BugsInABox]

Thanks, I'll stop looking for it at Thorne.co....