Double (national) brood vs. 14x12

[Boston Bees]

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[Curly green finger's]

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Three dots?
I have 14x12s my double brood national last season produced more honey.

 

[Boston Bees]

Three dots?
I have 14x12s my double brood national last season produced more honey.

I had pointed out the fact that you were confused about what Pargyle meant. But just as I did that, you deleted your post. So I replaced mine with ...

 

[ericbeaumont]

one flaw with BS National I see and that is the box size should have been all one size and the boxes a mid size box

Yes, the Rose box size would be ideal. Too late now...

 

[Finman]

Yes, the Rose box size would be ideal. Too late now...

Langstroth is best. Many professionals use mere medium boxes.

 

[pargyle]

My queen's aren't fecund enough for 2 14x12s and I would be surprised if yours were.

I didn't say that .... I've never needed two 14 x 12 brood boxes as a matter of course ....perhaps re-read my post ?

 

[Ian123]

Only one flaw with BS National I see and that is the box size should have been all one size and the boxes a mid size box between the two current sizes of super and deep brood. 14 x 12 as far as I'm concerned was not to my liking at all when I used it for a few years.

You can use 1 size I only use shallow boxes for CC, standard BS deep provided a good medium box. There’s no need to reinvent more!!!

 

[Curly green finger's]

I didn't say that .... I've never needed two 14 x 12 brood boxes as a matter of course ....perhaps re-read my post ?

Re-read posts, having a busy day apologies Philip .
As to numbers my point was I could split a double into loads of nucs considering most of my double brood national end up on 18 + frames of solid brood some even 22+ frames.
Im not looking to split colonys once or twice and have a few nucs, this was in comparison to my 14x12s and my preferred use of the smaller St nats frames.
As I also said strong double brood colonys have produced more honey for me, via manipulations and having constant brood in the second bb which keeps the honey in the supers.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I could split a double into loads of nucs considering most of my double brood national end up on 18 + frames of solid brood some even 22+ frames.

How many nucs?

 

[pargyle]

Re-read posts, having a busy day apologies Philip .
As to numbers my point was I could split a double into loads of nucs considering most of my double brood national end up on 18 + frames of solid brood some even 22+ frames.
Im not looking to split colonys once or twice and have a few nucs, this was in comparison to my 14x12s and my preferred use of the smaller St nats frames.
As I also said strong double brood colonys have produced more honey for me, via manipulations and having constant brood in the second bb which keeps the honey in the supers.

So you have 22+ frames full of brood ? ... Most people only have 11 frames and a dummy board in a national. There's not much room left for stores is there ? You also can't split to multiple nucs and take a huge honey crop form the same hive even with double brood ... or can you ? Are these Curly Superbees ? You will be worth a fortune selling those this year ....

 

[hemo]

You can use 1 size I only use shallow boxes for CC, standard BS deep provided a good medium box. There’s no need to reinvent more!!!

I wasn't talking of re inventing now , just that it is a shame from day one a simple one size box (midway between the two) wasn't in the thinking process from day one.
EricB understands fully what I meant.

 

[Nannysbees]

We are in a bit of a quandary. We have bought extra brood boxes for our national hives in case the bees need more space, obviously we don't have drawn frames for these. Last year we had a brood and a half. Not sure whether to stick with that and run the risk of swarming or bite the bullet and go for a double brood?

 

[Erichalfbee]

We are in a bit of a quandary. We have bought extra brood boxes for our national hives in case the bees need more space, obviously we don't have drawn frames for these. Last year we had a brood and a half. Not sure whether to stick with that and run the risk of swarming or bite the bullet and go for a double brood?

You are going to have to do some sort of swarm mitigation because the bees WILL make swarm preps. If you want to go double brood just Pagden with your new box and unite, use your half as a honey super

 

[Boston Bees]

We are in a bit of a quandary. We have bought extra brood boxes for our national hives in case the bees need more space, obviously we don't have drawn frames for these. Last year we had a brood and a half. Not sure whether to stick with that and run the risk of swarming or bite the bullet and go for a double brood?

You've bought the brood boxes, so you may as well use them? Should be no problem getting the frames drawn out in spring.

 

[Nannysbees]

You've bought the brood boxes, so you may as well use them? Should be no problem getting the frames drawn out in spring.

At what point do you think I'll know when to put them on?

 

[Boston Bees]

At what point do you think I'll know when to put them on?

Are the supers still on? Or did you remove them and go down to just the brood box for winter?

 

[Martimart]

I don't suppose really it matters that much, just realise that once you've chosen a "type" then it will be a royal pain in the ar5e to swap things around. I went with 14x12 because I thought rightly or wrongly the size would allow for a few mistakes and I wouldn't be instantly punished with swarming. If you start with say 14x12 and you don't really have any experience of any other type then you'll be fine with them. If you've used standard nationals and switch to 14x12 then yes I'd guess they would take some getting used to.

 

[hemo]

Double brood when the queen needs more laying room, typically the early spring flow is a good time if laying space is needed and not when she has run out of room. Another option if the Q doesn't need the space is to utilise the BB as the first or second super so at least one gets nice combs drawn out, one might need the resources though to extract the brood frames of honey.

Resist trying to place any new BB below the existing as it creates more work and possible queen loss or injury.

 

[Finman]

Not sure whether to stick with that and run the risk of swarming or bite the bullet and go for a double brood?

If your bee stock is swarmy, they do not care, how much you give to them more space.
Only artificial swarm and clipped queen wing can stop the swarms escape.

 

[Poly Hive]

I add my supers at 8 frames of brood and also the 2nd bb under the existing one. Works for me. All poly national.

PH