Does fight-it-out requeening lead to aggressive offspring?

[ugcheleuce]

Hello everyone

In my locality, requeening is often done by allowing more than one queen to hatch (or placing more than one queen cell into the hive, or putting more than one unmated queen into the hive), and letting the queens fight it out (i.e. kill each other, until one remains). The theory believed by those who do this is that the strongest queen will win, and the strongest queen is the best queen.

I have recently read some objections to this method, however, that state that the strongest bee is often the smallest, quickest and most aggressive, and that that means her offspring will also be smaller or quicker or more aggressive. In other words, by requeening with more than one queen per hive, you are actually selecting angry bees.

What do you think of that idea? Is it scientific?

Firstly, are stronger queens usually smaller, faster and more aggressive?

Secondly, do small or fast or aggressive queens lead to offspring that are aggressive (towards beekeepers)?

Thanks
Samuel

 

[Hivemaker.]

In my locality, requeening is often done by allowing more than one queen to hatch (or placing more than one queen cell into the hive, or putting more than one unmated queen into the hive), and letting the queens fight it out (i.e. kill each other, until one remains).

do small or fast or aggressive queens lead to offspring that are aggressive (towards beekeepers)?

What do those who often do it in your locality find.

 

[ugcheleuce]

What do those who often do it in your locality find?

They find that bees don't read books

 

[beeno]

Hi,
I left one newly emerged and marked queen to fight it out with 4 or 6 QCs (can't remember without consulting records) and the nuc turned extremely aggressive? Needless to say she is no more.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Hi,
I left one newly emerged and marked queen to fight it out with 4 or 6 QCs

Not a very even sided 'fight' that - a newly emerged queen against a handful of queen cells!

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Hi,
I left one newly emerged and marked queen to fight it out with 4 or 6 QCs (can't remember without consulting records) and the nuc turned extremely aggressive? Needless to say she is no more.

That would be anecdotal evidence based on a sample of one then?

 

[Hivemaker.]

They find that bees don't read books

And the local beekeepers don't know either.

I only know the breeders on Marken, and they don't do such things.

 

[Bosleeu]

I cannot really see how being able to kill another queen more efficiently could be linked to workers being more inclined to sting a beekeeper or passers-by.

It would be a very difficult thing to look into by way of a study. In my bees I have found no link anecdotally, only that friendly bees seem to be the offspring of friendly bees, especially if you have a lot of drones from other friendly hives around.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

 

[REDWOOD]

Aggression and strength are two different things, both queens will be up for the fight and perhaps the gentle giant queen will kick the aggressive queen into touch.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Aggression and strength are two different things, both queens will be up for the fight and perhaps the gentle giant queen will kick the aggressive queen into touch.

or you'll end up with a one eyed queen with a gammy leg.
I'd prefer to call this method 'fingers crossed and hope for the best' requeening

 

[beeno]

Hi all,
I submitted my one input on the basis of others may do the same. However, I would not anticipate that many beeks on this forum would 'let them fight it out' as it often leads to losing a swarm or two.

 

[bpmurray]

Hi all,
I submitted my one input on the basis of others may do the same. However, I would not anticipate that many beeks on this forum would 'let them fight it out' as it often leads to losing a swarm or two.

I would assume that a swarm would result if one leaves more than one queen.

 

[Hivemaker.]

I would assume that a swarm would result if one leaves more than one queen.

No it doesn't, best not to assume anything when it has to do with bees.

 

[Hebeegeebee]

I would assume that a swarm would result if one leaves more than one queen.

If you have multiple queencells emerging, ensure that all have been 'pulled' i.e. opened; the bees will sort themselves out and they won't swarm. It's a useful technique when faced with multiple queens - you can't find a whole bunch of virgins. (Leave a younger queencell in the hive with the slightly older sisters and they probably will).

 

[For want of a better word]

No it doesn't, best not to assume anything when it has to do with bees.

The delights of Native Amms... two queen systems!!!

Nos da

 

[beeno]

If you have multiple queencells emerging, ensure that all have been 'pulled' i.e. opened; the bees will sort themselves out and they won't swarm. It's a useful technique when faced with multiple queens - you can't find a whole bunch of virgins. (Leave a younger queencell in the hive with the slightly older sisters and they probably will).

Seem to recall someone on the forum having followed this advice and they swarmed. Show yourself.
There are other factors which will determine if they swarm or not such as genetics, colony strength and whether there is a flow on to mention a few. Also, if we are talking QC it has been proved in studies that the virgin queen that has killed the most virgins does not necessarily end up the winner.

 

[Swarm]

it has been proved in studies that the virgin queen that has killed the most virgins does not necessarily end up the winner.

Nothing surprising, virgin 1 could kill all the others herself and then be taken out by the last.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Nothing surprising, virgin 1 could kill all the others herself and then be taken out by the last.

That seems an excellent strategy.
Watch and wait thill she's absolutely knackered then move in.

If you have multiple queencells emerging, ensure that all have been 'pulled' i.e. opened; the bees will sort themselves out and they won't swarm. It's a useful technique when faced with multiple queens - you can't find a whole bunch of virgins. (Leave a younger queencell in the hive with the slightly older sisters and they probably will).

I've done this a few times for my mentees.
(I think they know better now)
It's worked for me. I think the bees make the decision rather than the queens fighting it out.
If they swarm I think it's because they are on the cusp of doing so when you disturb the colony and disrupt the guards.