cyristallized stores

[jallen]

hi all just had a look trought one of my hives left them with one super of honey when looking over a couple of frames in the super the honey seems to have granulated have i missed a trick ps all honey was foraged in the last 4 mounths

joe

 

[bellabee]

We have some of this too.... Not really sure what to do with it really. Any advice would be greatly received

 

[jallen]

im in london as well so no sign of rape (let the puns begin lol)

 

[Midland Beek]

You would not really expect any London honey to granulate in that kind of timescale, but sometimes there is in honey the 'seeds' of crystallization, ie. a small amount of one type of honey causing the granulation of the rest. Ivy honey does granulate but it has only recently come into flower.

I would not loose any sleep overwintering bees with granulated stores, but you have to say that liquid stores is probably better.

 

[bellabee]

Ours is ivy honey... And it is in our super. Can we use/keep/extract/give to the dog?

 

[drstitson]

leave it for the bees

 

[itma]

... when looking over a couple of frames in the super the honey seems to have granulated ...

Ours is ivy honey... And it is in our super. Can we use/keep/extract/give to the dog?

leave it for the bees

But remove the Queen Excluder, so that the whole winter cluster can get to the stores in that super.

Much discussion on here as to whether the 'super' is best to be nadir-ed (put under the Brood Box) Sounds preferable to me, as long as you can get it out in Spring before it starts getting used for new brood.

 

[bellabee]

Hummmm, Dr,S they already have a brood and half of their stores... Our mistake again I supose. Any chance we could swap out their stores for ours, I guess we have spare stores to add in later in the winter?

Beekeeping fail, again, sigh.

 

[drstitson]

presume the extra super was left on while treating for varroa too?

 

[Gardenbees]

If you really want to keep the honey for yourself, there are ways of creaming the crystals to create a reasonably smooth result. It's mostly used with rapeflower honey, but if yours has some ivy in it then I guess the same would apply. You basically have to warm it just enough to soften the crystals, then whip it until you get an even consistency, and seed it with the finest-sized crystals you can obtain (e.g. from a good batch of existing whipped honey, or a commercial honey-seeding product.).

To do this, though, you need to get the stuff out of the comb! Personally if it's set hard in the comb I'd leave it for the bees - perhaps put it on one side in the freezer until you think extra honey is needed, e.g. if they get short of stores in winter or spring. Then bruise the surface of the combs a bit and put them in either as individual frames of stores (when you might otherwise be thinking about putting fondant in), or whack the whole super onto the hive if they're very short of stores in spring.

There is one other way of using crystallised comb honey, which is to simply wash the honey out and use it to make mead....I've done this with washed cappings before, but not actual frames full of crystallised honey, so I'm not sure how well it would work.

PS - If Dr S is right about the super being exposed to varroa treatments, then definitely leave it for the bees: the flavour would be unpleasantly strong for human consumption.

 

[bellabee]

Dr,S.... No we are in fact late for that also!!!

Bad beekeeping again. Fail MkII... I know! Slap on wrists.

Garden bees. Brilliant this is very helpful...If we do route A and make extra think honey... Which is my favorite. What do you mean seed it with the finest size crystals? Mix it with something else?

Thank you for your help

 

[bellabee]

jallen, it is probably ivy honey like we have we also had some rape honey in the start of the season, which was not too bad to remove and tasted wonderful... I have my doubts about this ivy honey.

We knew it would happen, we just left the super on too long!!

 

[Chris Luck]

Any odd frames or part frames I have like that in removed supers simply get left in store and put back on with the supers in late Feb / early March for an extra early feed for the bees.

Chris

 

[Hebeegeebee]

Ivy honey granulates quickly and sets like concrete although I have never had a problem with bees using granulated ivy honey. If you have a super and a brood box full, your bees have plenty.

No need to feed to the dog. That's just daft.
No need to freeze, the honey will remain in the comb for ages (years). That's why the bees cap it over.

It's late to be looking through hives!

 

[itma]

jallen, it is probably ivy honey like we have ...
... I have my doubts about this ivy honey.

So you (or more likely the no-allergic 'staff'?) can swap the ivy honey into the 'winter stores' super, and keep a few frames of more palatable stuff for the beekeepers rather than the bees, can't you?

 

[Gardenbees]

Given all the caveats about getting it out of the comb, plus the somewhat acquired taste of ivy honey, I'd still personally leave it... Getting really solid honey out of the comb is a chore, and you can't just melt the whole lot, wax and all, without raising the temperature too high and spoiling the honey. You have to destroy the comb mechanically, losing the benefit of the drawn comb (which the bees could otherwise use again).

Heated honey is also dangerous to bees, so you can't reclaim it for feeding back to them in this way. Ideally, the thing to do with any kind of honey (usually oilseed rape) which crystallises quickly is to get it out of the combs ASAP, possibly even before it's been capped. Once it's in a bucket then you can relax a bit, because even if it sets rock solid there are various ways of blending and creaming it to make a nice honey.

If you're still keen to try and extract it and use it for "set" honey, you could try mushing it into a sieve and *gently* warming it so that the more liquid elements drip through into a bucket or pan. I've done this once or twice when saving honey from round the edges of brood combs that I was getting rid of. You can treat it like OSR honey, and let it set in the bucket, then warm it and cream it. The remaining crystally, waxy mess can either be "washed" to make mead, or just melted for the wax, discarding the sugary stuff.

The reason for choosing a fine-grained seed honey is because the crystals tend to form in the presence of existing crystals, and will be influenced by their size. If you don't seed it, you are likely to end up with an unpleasantly coarse, gritty honey that's only really suitable for cooking.

there's a couple of threads about crystallised honey that might be useful:
http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=10494&highlight=solid+honey

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=9482&highlight=crystallised

It's tempting to try and melt the lot and separate the wax off that way, but I really wouldn't: by all means warm the honey to try and get it out, up to about blood heat, but getting it hot enough to melt off the wax is going to trash the honey (at least IMHO....)

 

[bellabee]

Itma... Yep Ok we (or rather Pete the non allergic staff) will swap back in for the bees and we can take some of the hopefully non ivy stuff for ourselves... Ya? good plan?

Thanks guys.

Thanks Gardenbees also, great advice on what to do... I think Itma is right in less faff and just swap over.... Back Pete goes to the hive... again!!

Gardenbees are you talking from experience about getting ivy honey out...? You sound the voice of experience... Was it loads of bother?

 

[Gardenbees]

Thanks Gardenbees also, great advice on what to do... I think Itma is right in less faff and just swap over.... Back Pete goes to the hive... again!!

Gardenbees are you talking from experience about getting ivy honey out...? You sound the voice of experience... Was it loads of bother?

Well... I don't usually both with it, but did a couple of shook swarms this spring which left me with quite a lot of crystallised honey left in the old 14x12 brood frames (they made far more than they needed even during that cold winter). I didn't want to feed them back stuff from the old brood frames - one of the points of a shook swarm is to get them off the old frames and onto completely fresh ones, to break up any lurking disease cycle. So I chopped out some of the nicer slabs of honey, mashed them up and warmed them until I had a reasonable amount of honey. I rinsed the remaining wax bits in a sinkful of tepid water, scooped out the wax (it floats) and melted it down in the usual way.

Several jars of more or less edible set honey resulted, most of which I've been using in cooking and hot drinks as the ivy flavour isn't my favourite - rather medicinal, which is great if you have a cold and need a honey and lemon restorative, but not if you want something tasty on a toasted muffin...

 

[bellabee]

Gardenbees, Uuuugh I just remembered we put our varroa treatment on now... So we won't be swapping. I might just feed back to them in the spring.

Mmmm muffins and honey NOM.