Cutting Off a Queens Mandibles

[MartinL]

wondered how long it would be before the sandal wearers popped up!

That's a bit harsh. . .

I haven't mentioned sheep for at least 6 months!

 

[maddydog]

 

[dpearce4]

i think this thread needs to go into the naughty step section.

 

[charlievictorbravo]

Hang on a minute here, guys - let's get a bit of perspective and accuracy into this discussion. The article was a page and a half long and was primarily describing a system developed by Ron Brown (A Simple Two Queen System, Northern Books, 1980). This uses a "Two Queen Board" to initially separate the queens and their respective broods.

Toward the end of the piece under the heading "Other multiple queen colony methods have also been developed" the writer devotes three sentences to the the "clipped mandible" method, referenced to "Maintenance and application of multiple queen colonies in commercial beekeeping", Journal of Apicultural Research, 2009. He goes on the write "You may not wish to clip queens' mandibles (I know I do not) but Ron Brown's system is easy to follow and sounds like a lot of fun. It can provide a rapid build-up at times of need, giving benefits over single queen colonies (see summary box). Why not try it next season and let us know how you get on." He seems to have included the three sentences about clipped mandibles for the sake of completeness, to show that he has read around the subject.

That does not look to me like he is advocating clipped mandibles (quite the opposite) but rather that he is suggesting that beekeepers try Ron Brown's two queen system for developing a large foraging force before the main flow.

CVB

 

[Finman]

.
1980 queens were so good, that the size of hive can be a nuisance.

 

[masterBK]

Good summary CVB. Pity some people didn't read the article before commenting on it or if they did they didn't read it properly or with blinkered specs on only took from it what they wanted to feed their usual anti BBKA agenda.

 

[viridens]

Hang on a minute here, guys - let's get a bit of perspective and accuracy into this discussion. The article was a page and a half long and was primarily describing a system developed by Ron Brown (A Simple Two Queen System, Northern Books, 1980). This uses a "Two Queen Board" to initially separate the queens and their respective broods.

Toward the end of the piece under the heading "Other multiple queen colony methods have also been developed" the writer devotes three sentences to the the "clipped mandible" method, referenced to "Maintenance and application of multiple queen colonies in commercial beekeeping", Journal of Apicultural Research, 2009. He goes on the write "You may not wish to clip queens' mandibles (I know I do not) but Ron Brown's system is easy to follow and sounds like a lot of fun. It can provide a rapid build-up at times of need, giving benefits over single queen colonies (see summary box). Why not try it next season and let us know how you get on." He seems to have included the three sentences about clipped mandibles for the sake of completeness, to show that he has read around the subject.

That does not look to me like he is advocating clipped mandibles (quite the opposite) but rather that he is suggesting that beekeepers try Ron Brown's two queen system for developing a large foraging force before the main flow.

CVB

Isn't there also a photo showing 5 de-mandibled queens on one comb? Why include that?

 

[Finman]

It can provide a rapid build-up at times of need, giving benefits over single queen colonies (see summary box)..

CVB

That guy writes rubbish.

Speed of spring build up depends on the size of wintering colony. If does not help, how much queen's you put into the hive.

Carniolan has rapid spring build up, because it has pollen store in the hive after Winter. IT gets early new feeding bees.

Second is how much brood bees can keep warm in spring nights.

The Queen is able to lay double amount of brood frames, but nurser bees and size of colony must develop 6 weeks that it is possible.

Nonsense writings.

 

[Finman]

.
If you want foraging Power, unite 2 four box hives together.

Four box hive is able to store only 30-40 kg honey. Note that nectar needs 2-3 fold combs to rippen honey.

When you put two four box hives together, you get 120 kg honey storage, and only one queen to produce brood. That reduce the amount of bees needed to nurse brood.

Two 4-box hive capacity 60 kg of honey double amount ov brood.

8 box hive, 120 honey strorage

And what you need then is splended pastures, where bees get that 120 kg..

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Good summary CVB. Pity some people didn't read the article before commenting on it or if they did they didn't read it properly or with blinkered specs on only took from it what they wanted to feed their usual anti BBKA agenda.

Seems to be myriad examples of published bad advice which, when posted on here generate the usual apologist "well, they didn't really mean that - stop picking on the poor dabs" replies.

 

[Cussword]

Good summary CVB. Pity some people didn't read the article before commenting on it or if they did they didn't read it properly or with blinkered specs on only took from it what they wanted to feed their usual anti BBKA agenda.

I read it.. All the way through.

People have the right to be anti BBKA. Just as you have the right to be pro BBKA.

Just don't try to re write was was in the article. The guy cocked up, he has to live with it...So do you.

.

 

[charlievictorbravo]

Isn't there also a photo showing 5 de-mandibled queens on one comb? Why include that?

I suspect the photo was included to reinforce the idea that (if you count) SEVEN queens on one frame is achievable. The photo is very small - barely 5x8 cm - and each bee measures about 2.5mm so there's no chance of seeing clipped mandibles. The photo came from the IBRA, which published the original piece in 2009.

It's good that the practice of clipping mandibles has been given an airing. I don't see anybody supporting the practice but from the title of the IBRA article, it looks like it is used, somewhere, in commercial beekeeping.

As for Finnie's points about a good queen being able to lay quickly enough to fill two brood boxes, he may well be right . Factors that influence spring build-up appear to be temperature, availability of pollen and nectar, brood space and the presence of enough bees to look after the brood. His way of achieving an early spring build-up includes the use of heaters, feeding with syrup and with pollen patties but whether initially having two queens and two brood boxes would help with having sufficient nurse bees I'm not qualified to say because I've never done it but my suspicion is that it may assist in that respect.

CVB

 

[Anduril]

I have read about this previously somewhere on this forum.

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=27573&highlight=Mandibles

There is this thread

 

[Cussword]

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=27573&highlight=Mandibles

There is this thread

Quite a few seem to be of the opinion that it's just "not right".
I think the word Barbaric was used.

 

[Cussword]

Just don't try to re write what was in the article.

 

[viridens]

.... I The photo is very small - barely 5x8 cm - and each bee measures about 2.5mm so there's no chance of seeing clipped mandibles....

CVB

Only a small photo, so that's alright then apparently...
Surely the only purpose of including this photo is to show the 'benefit' which can be achieved?

 

[charlievictorbravo]

Only a small photo, so that's alright then apparently...
Surely the only purpose of including this photo is to show the 'benefit' which can be achieved?

No, the photo is there to show that you can get seven queens on one comb but the author made quite clear what his views were - "You may not wish to clip queens' mandibles (I know I do not)....". The fact of the matter is that somewhere, probably China, this practice is used commercially to improve the quantity of honey harvested.

There is nowhere in the article that advocates the use of clipping mandibles. End of!

CVB

 

[Easy Beesy]

I'm sorry, but it's absolute rubbish comparing clipping the tip of a wing off to cutting mandibles. Do you believe in banning wing clipping in chickens?

I would have no issue with docking a spaniel's or terrier's tail - but to slit its tongue to stop it barking, pull its teeth or break its jaw to stop it fighting!That's a different matter.

But then again, it's something else for the hand wringers to lose sleep over and feel superior to others because they don't believe in bothering with any kind of colony management.

I thought tail docking was illegal?

 

[Easy Beesy]

Hang on a minute here, guys - let's get a bit of perspective and accuracy into this discussion. The article was a page and a half long and was primarily describing a system developed by Ron Brown (A Simple Two Queen System, Northern Books, 1980). This uses a "Two Queen Board" to initially separate the queens and their respective broods.

Toward the end of the piece under the heading "Other multiple queen colony methods have also been developed" the writer devotes three sentences to the the "clipped mandible" method, referenced to "Maintenance and application of multiple queen colonies in commercial beekeeping", Journal of Apicultural Research, 2009. He goes on the write "You may not wish to clip queens' mandibles (I know I do not) but Ron Brown's system is easy to follow and sounds like a lot of fun. It can provide a rapid build-up at times of need, giving benefits over single queen colonies (see summary box). Why not try it next season and let us know how you get on." He seems to have included the three sentences about clipped mandibles for the sake of completeness, to show that he has read around the subject.

That does not look to me like he is advocating clipped mandibles (quite the opposite) but rather that he is suggesting that beekeepers try Ron Brown's two queen system for developing a large foraging force before the main flow.

CVB

Good to get some facts in the thread.

 

[Easy Beesy]

I read it.. All the way through.

People have the right to be anti BBKA. Just as you have the right to be pro BBKA.

Just don't try to re write was was in the article. The guy cocked up, he has to live with it...So do you.

.

Why didn't you say this in first post instead of pussyfooting around with the what do you think stuff. And why not just talk to the author instead of blaming BBKA? If they'd censored articles then you'd be complaining too.