Bee farmer / Commercial queen rearing

[Curly green finger's]

I had about 60-70 apideas but gave them away as they were nothing but trouble. Great in theory but not in practice is my experience. I use 3*3frame mating nucs that fit within a national footprint.
Once the queen has mated and the brood pattern looks good I move them into a poly nuc and restock the mating nuc with fresh bees. It's a great way to utilize the more aggressive colonies without having to requeen. A troublesome 2 frame nuc is easier to cope with than a full size monster!

Interesting, I'm wondering what to do at the moment, buy 40 or 50 apidea or convert nucs/ st brood boxes.
It sounds like from your experience I should go for the conversion option.
I had better results last season with my 3x3 6 frame nucs.
I also used kielers but lost more queen's. Hmmm what to do??

 

[rolande]

Interesting, I'm wondering what to do at the moment, buy 40 or 50 apidea or convert nucs/ st brood boxes.
It sounds like from your experience I should go for the conversion option.
I had better results last season with my 3x3 6 frame nucs.
I also used kielers but lost more queen's. Hmmm what to do??

Build gradually and find what works best in your hands.

Divided brood boxes are good in the sense that they can be reverted to standard if you choose not to stick with them (so long as you don't butcher them with router cuts).

Continue to use both types, find out *why* you're losing disproportionate numbers of queen's from one type. For instance, is it actually the box or is it because youre using mini nucs positioned next to/amongst larger/stronger nucs or hives? I'm not saying that would cause your issues just that you need to be very open minded as to possible causes while remembering that you may learn more from looking for the answer than from just going with what worked best last year (or worse still, works best for the rest of us).

One thing for sure:
''It sounds like from your experience I should go... ''

is never a good answer even though in this case the information from maddydog which you were replying to is excellent!

 

[maddydog]

Interesting, I'm wondering what to do at the moment, buy 40 or 50 apidea or convert nucs/ st brood boxes.
It sounds like from your experience I should go for the conversion option.
I had better results last season with my 3x3 6 frame nucs.
I also used kielers but lost more queen's. Hmmm what to do??

I'm sure if you ask John and Wendy nicely they'll give you a few to try Plenty of better queen rearers than me use them so they must work. Last year I set up around 50 of them and ended up with 4 mated queens. Plenty of user error in there but I just don't have the time to micro-manage at the level they require.

 

[Curly green finger's]

I'm sure if you ask John and Wendy nicely they'll give you a few to try Plenty of better queen rearers than me use them so they must work. Last year I set up around 50 of them and ended up with 4 mated queens. Plenty of user error in there but I just don't have the time to micro-manage at the level they require.

I agree its more to do with positioning I'm sure as the kielers that were away from other colonys did better, thanks both for your replys.
John and Wendy are very helpful aren't they

 

[madasafish]

I use both kielers and apideas , also apidea sized cheap poly boxes.
Don't have any issues with keeping any box going but prefer apideas as fewer bees needed to stock them. I only produce about 20-30 odd queens so very hobby orientated.
Never have enough bees in May for all I want to do, so apideas are better. Three frame nucs require far too many bees/resources.
Like Maddydog, getting quuens mated is an issue.. the weather here is very variable in June/July.

I expect overall to end with losing half my queens - unmated, missing (rare), and wasps (August).

Overwinter three to four queens in small mating nucs. Usually doubled up and heavily insulated.

 

[mbc]

I thought divided brood boxes were a thing of the past since the advent of poly nucs, I've sidelined all the ones I used to use (butchered beyond rehabilitation), it's just not worth the inconvenience when there's colonies with different development in either part imho.

 

[elainemary]

Interesting, I'm wondering what to do at the moment, buy 40 or 50 apidea or convert nucs/ st brood boxes.
It sounds like from your experience I should go for the conversion option.
I had better results last season with my 3x3 6 frame nucs.
I also used kielers but lost more queen's. Hmmm what to do??

I'm a novice and from my limited experience I'd say 3 frame nucs are the best. Last year I used a 6 frame poly nuc that has an entrance at each end that you can convert to 2 x 3 frame nucs. Brilliant! I popped a virgin in each side. They mated very quickly far quicker than in a full hive or larger nuc & none of the issues I'd had with absconding or laying workers that can happen very quickly with Apideas. I feel Apideas are a mating vehicle only, you can't use them to check brood pattern, they are high maintenance! A 3 frame nuc gives you more time to assess brood pattern and once she's laid up 2 frames i took half away to another 6 frame nuc and expanded the remaining 6 frame nuc. 100% success rate, v pleased. Plus you can use the 2 x 3 frame nucs as a 1 x 6 frame so versatile. You only actually need 1 frame of sealed / emerging brood and clinging nurse bees to set them up, plus frame pollen / stores and an empty frame.

 

[elainemary]

I agree its more to do with positioning I'm sure as the kielers that were away from other colonys did better, thanks both for your replys.
John and Wendy are very helpful aren't they

What are the advantages of Keilers? Is it just a slightly larger size vs Apideas?

 

[maddydog]

I thought divided brood boxes were a thing of the past since the advent of poly nucs, I've sidelined all the ones I used to use (butchered beyond rehabilitation), it's just not worth the inconvenience when there's colonies with different development in either part imho.

Definitely no 'one size fits all' when it comes to queen rearing.
Mine are all the old cedar brood boxes I had left over when I converted to poly. They are all individual boxes with their own floors and crown boards. I align 3 together to save a bit of space and it means I can use a single national roof.
I'm guessing you've found that better developed colonies can take over the weaker ones? Mine all start with roughly same level of resources and queen cells of the same age. Undoubtedly some absconding does occur.

 

[rolande]

Got to say that I love the flexibility (as I see it) of divided boxes and even make my own twin mating nucs because I find them so much easier to manage than stand alone singles; but I have been tweaking our system for a long time and maybe I've come up with a few tricks you don't see in the books.

 

[mbc]

What are the advantages of Keilers? Is it just a slightly larger size vs Apideas?

Yup, gives you a few days grace compared to the slightly smaller nucs with regards to absconding or starvation.

 

[mbc]

Got to say that I love the flexibility (as I see it) of divided boces and even make my own twin mating nucs because I find them so much easier to manage than stand alone singles; but I have been tweaking our system for a long time and maybe I've come up with a few tricks you don't see in the books.

If you've got the time I'd be interested in reading about any innovations you've come up with

 

[maddydog]

If you've got the time I'd be interested in reading about any innovations you've come up with

+1 always new stuff to learn/try

 

[elainemary]

+1 always new stuff to learn/try

+2 agree, never stop learning

 

[rolande]

If you've got the time I'd be interested in reading about any innovations you've come up with

Funny you mention that... I've just been thinking about sitting down one evening and doing one of those forum blog things on the subject.

 

[elainemary]

Funny you mention that... I've just been thinking about sitting down one evening and doing one of those forum blog things on the subject.

Look forward to reading it tomorrow!

 

[Erichalfbee]

Funny you mention that... I've just been thinking about sitting down one evening and doing one of those forum blog things on the subject.

Please do. At least you’ll make some sense.

 

[maddydog]

Please do. At least you’ll make some sense.

Bit harsh, make it sound like everyone else contributing to the thread hasn't got a clue? Perhaps you'd like to share your queen rearing wisdom?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Bit harsh, make it sound like everyone else contributing to the thread hasn't got a clue? Perhaps you'd like to share your queen rearing wisdom?

That certainly wasn’t my intention at all so my apologies. I love Rolande’s posts and insight. I look forward to reading more of what he says.

 

[SWEET]

Definitely no 'one size fits all' when it comes to queen rearing.

I'd removed a bunch of Q-Cells from various hives last year and tossed into a tin ready for disposal. Left in the back of landy in boiling heat for a week. Opened the tin and out came several big queens!, used* some on vile hives and the rest into Nucs, all did/doing well.

* simply ran them into Q- stocks and left them to it.