Another oxalic acid question

[ellypatt]

It says on the bottle "never apply with honey supers on" (or similar wording, can't remember exactly). What if you're overwintering on brood and a half, or have a super of stores under the brood box - does it mean you'd have to discard the comb from these frames before using them as a honey super later in the year?

 

[For want of a better word]

Good question
Think about it.. as Tractor man would say!!

Brood + 1/2 frames would probably not get used for honey production ( well I would not use them)

A super of stores would get cleared in a similar way to any other super of stores

Previous postees have stated that OA will not harm honey... in the ppm level...but possibly not too good an idea to stir it in with your honey before pouring it over your rhubarb crumble!

 

[oliver90owner]

So, as ICH said, let's give it a bit of thought.

5cm cubes per frame at 3% oxalic.

Let's not bother about accuracy here, just ball park figures.

How much oxalic acid would 5ml of solution contain?

Round figures, say 3% 0f 5000mg, so 150mg

Let's assume it all goes onto the shallow frame, which holds some 1kg of honey.

Getting the drift?

150mg among 1 000 000. Now dilute it with all those frames onto which no oxalic acid was involved.

Now think about it; most of the oxalic actually went on the bees? Consumed by the bees? What is the typical oxalic acid content of honey?

I wouldn't be unduly worrying about it!

 

[For want of a better word]

oliver90owner


Fantastic...............
Thanks

 

[ellypatt]

I was just wondering, thanks for allaying my vague concerns. Now, if you look at it from a homeopathic perspective.... ;-)

 

[Margaret Elisabeth]

Worrying about it!

I am worrying about it.
Oxalic acid is present in some Stalks, leaves and flowers, Elder and Rhubarb are two. I am not sure in what sort of quantity. However I do know that some people are very sensitive to Oxalic acid and react very badly to ingesting it. Therefore I have been humming and erring about whether or not to put the trickle treatment on while the bees are on the super of homey I left for them. Maybee I will just mark that box of frames not for human consumption. and put the frames on later in the year for the bees winter stores.
What doe the Ex spurts think?

 

[Arfermo]

Bit late for oxalic now anyway. Best done at least 4 weeks ago.

 

[Dilligaf]

It might be getting late on for treatment, but 4 weeks ago I still had brood.
The recent cold spell has me planning a quick look at the weekend, rain permitting, before a treatment if they are broodless.
If there is brood in reasonable amounts, no treatment with oxalic this year, I will monitor the drop & treat accordingly later on.

 

[Margaret Elisabeth]

Four weeks ago I was in London and the hive is in Sheffield. I am now wondering if it is wise to Oxalic them at all as I just read if it is a weak colony it might spell death. when I looked in on them a couple of days ago they were moving around but there are only a couple of seams. Last year from a late nuc I am a starter beekeeper so read and listen to everything then see what I think suits my situation. the weather here is very changable, Freezing yesterday and balmy south westerly today with a clear sky this morning, then gales this afternoon with torrents of rain.

 

[Finman]

I am worrying about it.
Oxalic acid is present in some Stalks, leaves and flowers, Elder and Rhubarb are two. I am not sure in what sort of quantity. However I do know that some people are very sensitive to Oxalic acid and react very badly to ingesting it. Therefore I have been humming and erring about whether or not to put the trickle treatment on while the bees are on the super of homey I left for them. Maybee I will just mark that box of frames not for human consumption. and put the frames on later in the year for the bees winter stores.
What doe the Ex spurts think?

Margaret, you invent now your own problems even if you have not much knowledge about oxalic in human food or in bee food. Yes, these are serious question but they has been examined many years ago.

Carrot is an ordinary food stuff and it has 0.5% oxalic acid. Lettuce has 0.3%.

and so on. Here is a list http://oxalicacidinfo.com/

Oxalic issue has been carefully reserched in EU Varroa Group and they noticed that trickling or other oxalic treatments do not make even small danger to consumers. So, it decided that is not necessary to examine the oxalic acid contents of honey because it is really small in worts cases.


What good is in oxalic acid compared to other treatment stuffs: Oxalic a natural chemical in human and in bee's metabolic cycle. Human liver handle daily some dosages of oxalic and part of oxaclic come out via feces.

When you eate carrot, you get about 100 times more oxalic acid than via honey.

.


.

 

[Finman]

.
This is one example

Determination of residues in honey after treatments with formic and oxalic acid under field conditions
Stefan Bogdanov, Jean-Daniel Charrière, Anton Imdorf, Verena Kilchenmann and Peter Fluri

Swiss Bee Research Centre, FAM, 3003 Bern, Switzerland
(Received 30 August 2001; revised 4 February 2002; accepted 1 March 2002)

Abstract
Formic acid and oxalic acid field trials for control of Varroa destructor were carried out in autumn according to the Swiss prescriptions during three successive years in different apiaries in Switzerland. The following parameters were determined in honey that was harvested the year after treatment: formic acid, oxalic acid and free acidity. The following range of values were found in honeys of untreated colonies: formic acid, from 17 to 284 mg/kg, n = 34; oxalic acid, from 11 to 119 mg/kg, n = 33. There was a small, but unproblematic increase in formic acid levels in comparison to the levels in the controls; average: 46 mg/kg, maximum: 139 mg/kg. No increase in formic acid was found with increasing number of treatment years. If emergency formic acid treatments were carried out in spring, the residue levels were much higher: average increase of 193 mg/kg, maximum 417 mg/kg. The oxalic acid content remained unchanged, even after two successive treatments during the same autumn. No rise of free acidity was encountered after a combined treatment with formic and oxalic acid during the three trial years.

 

[Margaret Elisabeth]

Thanks Finman that is a most useful reply and link.

 

[Finman]

.
Thanks to you! I thought that if you get bad nipples from my answers.

 

[For want of a better word]

.
Thanks to you! I thought that if you get bad nipples from my answers.

Gets my vote for a STICKIE !​

​

 

[Suzi Q]

nannit??!

 

[Finman]

.
OK, I ought to say pimples, but...

 

[beeno]

.
OK, I ought to say pimples, but...

Hi Finman,
You were right the first time. Honey cream from chemist recommended by health visitors in the UK for nursing mothers.

 

[Finman]

Hi Finman,
You were right the first time. .

Thanks. Quite good that I am right in wrong place.
Next step is to be right in right place...

Learning curve, go go!

(language barrier included)

 

[For want of a better word]

Hi Finman,
You were right the first time. Honey cream from chemist recommended by health visitors in the UK for nursing mothers.

​

Then on another thread warnings about not giving honey products to infants...

 

[BobsBees]

Arfermo:-
Quote'
Bit late for oxalic now anyway. Best done at least 4 weeks ago.Quote'

Have you seen my post "Cleanout after Oxalic"