Laying Workers BS 2 in 1 nuc

[Lisbanoe]

Hi everyone, I did a quick check the other day for eggs in each hive. One was a nuc that had a late mated queen and another was a full colony going into winter.
I checked the nuc and found the marked queen, very little eggs and almost no stores. Although they were taking fondant all through winter. Each frame was very light. There were a good few chalkbrood mummys on the mesh floor. There were 3 frames of bees.
The other hive l had over wintered on a brood and a half with no QE. I thought it was a dead out at first, there were hardly any bees in the brood box. However there were a few frames of bees in the super. There were a few eggs and larvae and a few capped drone brood. I also saw dwarf drones wandering about. Is this just because they made drones in the worker cells? When looking through photos later I spotted a few cells with more than one egg. I looked thoroughly twice for a queen but she was nowhere to be seen.

anyway, I thought the nuc could use the boost so I put the frame with the eggs/larvae in the new split nuc in the same position. Shook all the remaining bees into the same side. Added a frame full of honey (Scraped the cappings) and some pollen from another hive and another of drawn comb. Opened the door to that side. Added sugar water to the feeder accessible from both sides.

On the other side of this nuc I put 2 frames of drawn comb from last year and one of stores. I shook in all the bees from the other (laying workers)colony. I left this door closed because they were from a different part of the apiary. I left the closed side like that for 4 days. It was supposed to be 3 but it was too wet.
I checked yesterday and the wee nuc now has a nice patch of capped brood and two sides of a frame of eggs and young larvae. They were bringing in loads of pollen and generally seemed much happier in their new home getting fattened up. I don't think they would have lasted too much longer but that was the very first day i could inspect them with the weather being so poor.

The other side, I had been thinking were only fit to be shook out. But, there were so few eggs i figured maybe the laying worker situation had only started. i had hoped that maybe the queen from the nuc being in close proximity would curb the workers laying. If not it was worth a try and i could shake them out later. I opened them up after 4 days and there were absolutely zero eggs. I looked very closely but i'm cautiously optimistic, maybe I caught them in time? I opened the door to let them orient to the new position and I'll check again in a few days for any eggs and if there are none I was thinking I could just remove the divider between the two?

Both were treated with apivar in autumn and OA Vap in December

This is my 3rd year so I am at that stage where I have no clue what i'm doing because I've read too much and have no actual experience! Did I do anything obviously stupid or is there anything better I could have tried?

 

[ericbeaumont]

One was a nuc that had a late mated queen and another was a full colony going into winter.

from another hive

the new split nuc

On the other side of this

Confused? I am. How many 3f and how many 6f nucs do you have?

Laying workers best shaken out. As they think they're Q+ if you remove the divider there's likely to be a fight.

https://www.bushfarms.com/beeslayingworkers.htm

checked yesterday and the wee nuc now has a nice patch of capped brood and two sides of a frame of eggs and young larvae

Success! Concentrate on developing this one. A small nuc will not have the workforce to reduce the water in sugar syrup, so either give invert syrup, but better to give fondant. Trouble is that the 2- in-1 can be fed fondant in only one half.

3rd year so I am at that stage where I have no clue what i'm doing

Have you done a training course? Not essential, but by the third year you should be getting in the groove. On the other hand, making mistakes is most useful and will improve your beekeeping.

 

[Lisbanoe]

Thanks for the response
Sorry, It is confusing I was trying to be thorough,

I had a 6 frame nuc that had compacted down to bees on 3 frames. And the other full colony with the laying workers was down to 3 frames as well. They have now been put into the same nuc box with a divider. They have a frame of food from another hive each and 2 frames of drawn comb each. Both have plenty of bees.

I contemplated just shaking them out, but because there was only about a dozen eggs, larvae and capped brood I figured they may have just started. And the struggling nuc could have used the extra bees. I was going to wait and check again for eggs before removing the divider. If there's any sign of laying workers in another few days I go to plan B

Yes I've been a member of my local Association for 3 years and I'm halfway through the second course they offer.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

By what I can ick out from these conversations, I think both those colonies are doomed, a shakeout would be best.

 

[ericbeaumont]

the struggling nuc could have used the extra bees

Last week I found something similar: a Q- nuc and one weak but Q+. Put a board up to the entrance of the Q+ lot and shook the Q- onto it. In 20 mins they'd gone in and found mummy.

View attachment VID_20230319_161848718~2.mp4

 

[Lisbanoe]

I checked the new neighbours yesterday. Queen on first side laying on 3 frames now. The previously laying workers on the other side had zero eggs again and bringing in lots of pollen and looking content. I crossed my fingers and pulled out the divider and they all seemed to get on swimmingly. I wasn't sure what to do with the entrances so I left them two for now. If I close one, will they work out to go round the other side or should I sneak down at night and close one and put a few branches over?

 

[ericbeaumont]

pulled out the divider and they all seemed to get on swimmingly

Excellent!

I have an idea that Q pheromone drifts from one compartment into the other via the adjacent mesh floors. I'd just go ahead and close the entrance you don't want, on the principle that it's best not to give bees options.

 

[Lisbanoe]

Yes, it must have been the mesh floor, the divider slots into both walls and there's little to no space top or bottom. It may have worked because they'd only started laying. And I don't know if it would work if the laying worker hive was bigger than the Q+ one. But overall worth a go and I'll definitely try it again.

 

[ericbeaumont]

must have been the mesh floor

That mingling under the floor can be a drawback if you put a sealed QC in each half. I've found too often that one is mated and the other has disappeared. Could be natural loss, of course.

 

[Rory Fields]

Hi everyone, I did a quick check the other day for eggs in each hive. One was a nuc that had a late mated queen and another was a full colony going into winter.
I checked the nuc and found the marked queen, very little eggs and almost no stores. Although they were taking fondant all through winter. Each frame was very light. There were a good few chalkbrood mummys on the mesh floor. There were 3 frames of bees.
The other hive l had over wintered on a brood and a half with no QE. I thought it was a dead out at first, there were hardly any bees in the brood box. However there were a few frames of bees in the super. There were a few eggs and larvae and a few capped drone brood. I also saw dwarf drones wandering about. Is this just because they made drones in the worker cells? When looking through photos later I spotted a few cells with more than one egg. I looked thoroughly twice for a queen but she was nowhere to be seen.

anyway, I thought the nuc could use the boost so I put the frame with the eggs/larvae in the new split nuc in the same position. Shook all the remaining bees into the same side. Added a frame full of honey (Scraped the cappings) and some pollen from another hive and another of drawn comb. Opened the door to that side. Added sugar water to the feeder accessible from both sides.

On the other side of this nuc I put 2 frames of drawn comb from last year and one of stores. I shook in all the bees from the other (laying workers)colony. I left this door closed because they were from a different part of the apiary. I left the closed side like that for 4 days. It was supposed to be 3 but it was too wet.
I checked yesterday and the wee nuc now has a nice patch of capped brood and two sides of a frame of eggs and young larvae. They were bringing in loads of pollen and generally seemed much happier in their new home getting fattened up. I don't think they would have lasted too much longer but that was the very first day i could inspect them with the weather being so poor.

The other side, I had been thinking were only fit to be shook out. But, there were so few eggs i figured maybe the laying worker situation had only started. i had hoped that maybe the queen from the nuc being in close proximity would curb the workers laying. If not it was worth a try and i could shake them out later. I opened them up after 4 days and there were absolutely zero eggs. I looked very closely but i'm cautiously optimistic, maybe I caught them in time? I opened the door to let them orient to the new position and I'll check again in a few days for any eggs and if there are none I was thinking I could just remove the divider between the two?

Both were treated with apivar in autumn and OA Vap in December

This is my 3rd year so I am at that stage where I have no clue what i'm doing because I've read too much and have no actual experience! Did I do anything obviously stupid or is there anything better I could have tried?

The longer you keep bees, the less you know in my experience- I'm only 8yrs in but one of tge bany things I love about the whole craft is that it's entirely ungovernable and unpredictable. The bees don't read the books they say!

 

[Lisbanoe]

The longer you keep bees, the less you know in my experience- I'm only 8yrs in but one of tge bany things I love about the whole craft is that it's entirely ungovernable and unpredictable. The bees don't read the books they say!

I swear, sometimes I think I might be starting to know what I'm doing then immediately NO. I look forward to the day I can just automatically know what to do in a situation, instead of having to sit down and think real hard. I've started writing myself wee notes about what needs done in each hive, else I start going off on a tangent. I stood in the middle of the apiary the other day for a good 10 minutes trying to remember where I'd put the queen in the Artificial Swarm I was meant to be doing... This is why I take lots of notes and photos and have everything a different colour. The only upside is I think my bees might know what they're supposed to be doing despite my cack-handed attempts.

 

[Rory Fields]

I swear, sometimes I think I might be starting to know what I'm doing then immediately NO. I look forward to the day I can just automatically know what to do in a situation, instead of having to sit down and think real hard. I've started writing myself wee notes about what needs done in each hive, else I start going off on a tangent. I stood in the middle of the apiary the other day for a good 10 minutes trying to remember where I'd put the queen in the Artificial Swarm I was meant to be doing... This is why I take lots of notes and photos and have everything a different colour. The only upside is I think my bees might know what they're supposed to be doing despite my cack-handed attempts.

We're all in the same boat fella, the journey is the destination - we'll never know it all and they'll always surprise us, I wouldn't have it any other way